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E36 M3 Iinjectors into an E30 M3

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    E36 M3 Iinjectors into an E30 M3

    Hi all,

    Does anyone have any experience in swapping standard E36 M3 injectors (0 280 150 701) into an E30 M3 / 320is ? They are both rated to deliver the same flow at 3 bar - 182.9g/min.

    I got the flow figures from the Bosh Automotive website, as the aftermarket flow figures are all different !

    I ask as standard E30 M3 injectors (0 280 150 201) are now very difficult to obtain in the UK.

    Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

    David Seer.
    Last edited by E30_Dave; 04-27-2016, 05:20 AM.

    #2
    Volvo 740 turbo injectors are what we use here in the US for an upgraded injector. It's equivalent of the EVO injectors but you will need a tune.

    I believe the impedance between the early and late model M3 is different. For that I would have to Google it or wander back over to S14.net and do a search.
    https://www.facebook.com/BentOverRacing

    Comment


      #3
      Hi M-Tech, and many thanks for your reply.

      Do you have a part number for the 740 turbo injectors so that I can do some research please ?

      Comment


        #4
        Hi again all,

        I had a spare few hours last night and did a little cross referencing research into injectors with similar flow rates to the Bosch 0 280 150 201 used in the E30 M3 & 320is.

        This is what I've come up with thus far:

        1). 0 280 150 201 rated at 182.9g/min @ 3bar

        Fitted to: Part No.:

        BMW 13 64 1 273 272 (See HERE)
        Buick 10026723
        Pontiac 10026723
        Porsche 944 606 110 01
        Renault 99 99 163 922

        2). 0 280 150 701 rated at 182.9g/min @ 3bar

        Fitted to: Part No.:

        Alfa Romeo 60800166
        BMW 13 64 1 310 641 (See HERE)
        Citroen 96 125 810 OR 1984 75
        Fiat 5969614 OR 60800166
        Iveco 5969614
        Lancia 5969614
        Peugeot 96 125 810 OR 1984 75
        Volkswagen 037 906 031 B

        As an aside, even though the 320is is fitted at standard with the same injectors as the E30 M3, it can theoretically be fitted with injectors with a flow rate as low as 175.6g/min @ 3 bar (based on 5cc/min/bhp @ 3 bar), as not only is the engine a 2 litre (as opposed to 2.3 l in the M3) but it is also slightly less powerful (192bhp).

        I'm going to keep looking for more, as these are only the 150 series (EV1 form factor), and I believe there are more modern options in the 155 and 156 series (EV6 form factor).

        Some of you may have read this post prior to the evening of 18th July and seen another three alternatives (0 280 150 577, ...759 & ...786). I have removed these as their alpha 80 spray pattern angle was greater than the 19 degrees as the original specification.

        There will be at least one more round of amendments to this post.

        Cheers,

        DS.
        Last edited by E30_Dave; 07-22-2014, 12:27 AM. Reason: removal of erroneous information.

        Comment


          #5
          Hi all,

          The best injector data page I've found so far is an excel spreadsheet, which can be found HERE

          It appears very comprehensive, and the basic flow rates (in g/min @ 3bar) appear to match the figures on the Bosch Automotive website. I will go through it and post any relevant data.

          Comment


            #6
            Hi Dave,

            Do you still have the original injectors? Why not get them refurbished instead of replacing with new?
            I've had great success with refurbishing originals, at a fraction of the cost of new injectors.

            -Chris
            Below the radar...

            Comment


              #7
              Chris,

              Many thanks for your reply.

              The original injectors are still in the car, and I may well have them refurbished, but I thought it was worth trying to find a suitable (more modern, cheaper, and perhaps more efficient) alternative.

              In the end it will come down to cost, and I have to be honest, I don't know to exactly what degree they can be refurbished. I don't necessarily believe that they can truly be made as good as a new set of injectors, and if I'm going to spend the money, I'd rather spend it once - so more research needed, and advice and the benefit of the experience of others (including your good self) is most welcome.

              The spreadsheet I gave the link to in my previous post is very well set up, and allows easy elimination of injectors outside the desired range of specification, and I've quickly narrowed the field down to only 3 or perhaps 4 alternatives.

              I'll amend the original post sometime tomorrow.

              Cheers

              DS.

              Comment


                #8
                Try RC Engineering. They sell and refurbish your injectors. You will also be provided with the data sheet from the bench test thereafter.
                88 M3
                85 190e-16v Euro
                86 ae86 Trueno Itb's
                63 Lotus 7 repl Turbo
                93 500E

                Comment


                  #9
                  one of best injector info pages on the web

                  lots of info here
                  Angus
                  88 E30M3 X2
                  89 325IX
                  92 R100GS/PD
                  :)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by E30_Dave View Post
                    Chris,

                    Many thanks for your reply.

                    The original injectors are still in the car, and I may well have them refurbished, but I thought it was worth trying to find a suitable (more modern, cheaper, and perhaps more efficient) alternative.

                    In the end it will come down to cost, and I have to be honest, I don't know to exactly what degree they can be refurbished. I don't necessarily believe that they can truly be made as good as a new set of injectors, and if I'm going to spend the money, I'd rather spend it once - so more research needed, and advice and the benefit of the experience of others (including your good self) is most welcome.

                    The spreadsheet I gave the link to in my previous post is very well set up, and allows easy elimination of injectors outside the desired range of specification, and I've quickly narrowed the field down to only 3 or perhaps 4 alternatives.

                    I'll amend the original post sometime tomorrow.

                    Cheers

                    DS.
                    Originally posted by 88Alpine View Post
                    Try RC Engineering. They sell and refurbish your injectors. You will also be provided with the data sheet from the bench test thereafter.
                    Even with international shipping, RC Engineering will be able to recondition and refurbish them to new specs for likely less than new injectors. They come back with a flow report reporting on status of each injector before/after.

                    I believe total cost is only $250USD for a set of 4?
                    I've used them for 2.3L & 2.5L S14's, 3.0L M20's, various S50/S52's.

                    Below the radar...

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Injector upgrade for vehicles using Bosch 0 280 150 201 / 701 injectors.

                      Hi again all,

                      88Alpine & UNHCLL - many thanks for your replies. RC Engineering's ProCal service looks good, but expensive !... I have yet to find a service like that ion the UK - understanding of EFI systems among independent garages in the UK is generally pitiful... I asked a garage to check and set the CO on my 320is a few years ago. The guy took one look under the bonnet and said "I wouldn't know where to start!". I did it for them, and chucked £10 in the tea fund !

                      spdracrm3 - many thanks for your reply. I had seen Stan Weiss's injector spec page, and found the flow rates inaccurate when compared to the figures given on the Bosch Automotive website. See post No.5 for the link to the spreadsheet I've been referring to, where the "g/min @ 3 bar" figures match Bosch's specs.

                      Next, let's not forget that the early Porsche 944 used the same injectors as as the E30 M3 & 320is, and it just so happens that my research led me to THIS interesting Porsche related info on the same subject. The youtube spray comparison videos are something of an eye opener, although I have yet to ascertain whether or not the Porsche drivers already have a preferred EV6 type alternative to the 0 280 150 201.

                      Following on from this, I began looking at the possibility of using an EV6 type injector for their better atomisation, more thorough vapourisation, and lesser propensity for fuel to puddle in the inlet port, which one would hope would lead to better idling, sharper throttle response and perhaps greater fuel efficiency, with no loss of performance.

                      To that end I have narrowed the selection to seven possible candidates which are split into four basic types, but before I list them, I think it would be useful for anyone thinking about alternative injectors to know my process of elimination.

                      The criteria were as follows:

                      Injector Type: EV6
                      Electrical Connector: Jetronic
                      Fuel rail connector: Grommet
                      Manifold connector: Grommet
                      Flow rate: 172.2 - 187.1 g/min @ 3bar.
                      Conic Spray Angle: Equal to or less than 19 degrees, but not less than 12 degrees (any greater a spray angle will increase the potential for puddling of the fuel in the inlet port).
                      Alpha 50 Spray Angle (flow separated into 2 streams): NULL (although with a little more research and a stripped cylinder head, this could be made to work work well with the S14)
                      Axial deviation of spray pattern: NULL
                      Spray orientation angle: NULL

                      Group 1 General Specifications:
                      186.6g/min @ 3bar.
                      Operating Pressure 2.7bar.
                      Conic Spray Angle: 12 deg.
                      Impedance: 14.5 ohm.

                      Group 1 Part No.
                      0 280 155 715
                      0 280 155 716
                      0 280 155 915
                      0 280 155 916.

                      Group 2 General Specifications:
                      187.1g/min @ 3bar.
                      Operating Pressure: 4bar.
                      Conic Spray Angle: 15 deg.
                      Impedance: 12 ohm.

                      Group 2 Part No.
                      0 280 155 752
                      0 280 155 931
                      0 280 155 932

                      Of these, the group 2 injectors use the standard retaining clip (part no. 13 53 1 274 729), whereas the group 1 injectors would need a little gentle and judicious modification to accept this clip. The presence or otherwise of a clip appears to be dictated by the operating pressure: 3bar and above have them, but anything under doesn't.

                      Finally, at the risk of going a little on the lean side at max. rpm, WOT, we have Groups 3 & 4:

                      Group 3 General Specifications:
                      172.3g/min @ 3bar.
                      Operating Pressure: 4bar.
                      Conic Spray Angle: 15 deg.
                      Impedance: 12 ohm.

                      Group 3 part no.
                      0 280 155 890
                      0 280 155 891

                      Group 4 General Specifications:
                      172.2g/min @ 3bar.
                      Operating Pressure: 3.5bar.
                      Conic Spray Angle: 15 deg.
                      Impedance: 12 ohm.

                      Group 4 part no.
                      0 280 156 013

                      Unfortunately, all of the injectors listed operate either above or below the 3bar standard of the motronic EFi system. My preference is for those whose nominal operating pressure are slightly below 3 bar, as I anticipate they'd perform better slightly over pressure than under, which means the preference is for injectors in Group 1.

                      Constructive comments, observations and/or additional information welcome.

                      Best Regards

                      DS.
                      Last edited by E30_Dave; 12-16-2014, 02:14 AM. Reason: Additional information.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by E30_Dave View Post
                        Hi again all,

                        88Alpine & UNHCLL - many thanks for your replies. RC Engineering's ProCal service looks good, but expensive !
                        I just looked for the receipt - it was less than $150 for 4 injectors with shipping.

                        The S14 won't benefit from a ProCal level service. A standard clean/rebuild/flow test is sufficient to the tune of $24USD/ea.

                        -Chris
                        Below the radar...

                        Comment


                          #13
                          S14 injectors.

                          Originally posted by UNHCLL View Post
                          I just looked for the receipt - it was less than $150 for 4 injectors with shipping.

                          The S14 won't benefit from a ProCal level service.
                          Fair comment Chris - that is cheap.

                          However, if I get lucky the 0 280 155 715 is fairly easy to obtain and are cheaper - potentially cheap enough to take a punt on, and if the injector swap doesn't work, then it doesn't matter too much..

                          With a view to increasing the choice of injectors available it may be worth looking into injectors which split the fuel stream in two - ideal for a multi valve engine like the S14.

                          To this end, can anyone with the throttle bodies off their engine give me an idea of the angle between the inlet valves in each siamesed pair of ports, with measurement centred at the the injector port please ?

                          Cheers

                          DS.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by E30_Dave View Post
                            To this end, can anyone with the throttle bodies off their engine give me an idea of the angle between the inlet valves in each siamesed pair of ports, with measurement centred at the the injector port please ?

                            Cheers

                            DS.
                            Pm this guy. Maybe he can help as he's selling a set right now.
                            88 M3
                            85 190e-16v Euro
                            86 ae86 Trueno Itb's
                            63 Lotus 7 repl Turbo
                            93 500E

                            Comment


                              #15
                              **Update**

                              Hi All,

                              Further to the above, I went ahead and bought a set of 0 280 155 715 injectors from CS Performance Injectors in The States, and a couple of hours a go, I fitted them.

                              I did fit and extra 'o' ring at the bottom of each of them to ensure that they couldn't descend too far into the throttle bodies under the pressure of the fuel - remember they don't have any facility to take the retaining clip of the original injectors.

                              Once everything was back together, I turned the key. It took a few seconds of cranking to get the fuel rail primed, but eventually the engine sprang into life, and settled to a nice idle. The injectors don't sound quite the same as the old ones, but the engine itself sounds fine. In the absence of a gas analyser, I had a quick look at the exhaust for smoke, and a did a quick sniff-test for overfuelling, and everything seemed fine.

                              I let the engine idle for a minute or two whilst I put the tools away and washed my hands; then I took it for a test drive. The results thus far are that (without any adjustments) the idling is better, though not 100% as it should be (I'll have to get the vacuum gauges out !), there's no stink of neat fuel after stopping the engine, behaviour whilst driving at around 30mph in 3rd & 4th gears is improved, and the engine pulls cleanly from 1000rpm in 5th gear.

                              As I said, all of the above was done without a gas analyser, and without any adjustments to the fuel system or the throttle bodies, so I'm going to make sure that the throttles are balanced, and then call my local garage and book a short slot on their gas analyser to check the idle settings.

                              I'll give a further update when this is done.

                              Cheers

                              Dave (with a big, self satisfied grin on his face !)

                              Comment

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