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Elusive issue with Flywheel, very specific.

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    Elusive issue with Flywheel, very specific.

    Ok, I have been wrestling with this problem for 9 years!

    Please do not assume the answer is easy, it isn't, I seek a very specific piece of information.

    The challenge is this.....I have replaced every part in my clutch, trans, hydraulics systems TWICE and this thing is still hard to shift. Yes this includes bleeding the slave 4 different ways numerous times, I even bled the master, trans replaced twice, once with a rebuild. Yes all bushing replaced, twice. No short shift. Trans mounts replaced. Pivot and arm replaced, twice.
    I had the flywheel inspected and tested, it seems fine.

    My current theory is that the car has the wrong flywheel in it AND I am getting conflicting information on what flywheel should be in it. 99% of you will tell me single mass and 99% of the time you would be right, however, my car has AIR CON, so BMW is telling me it should be a dual or twin mass flywheel.

    Given the way it drives (hard to shift, clutch not really engaging) it makes sense that it originally had a dual (thicker) and 99% of you replaced it with a single (thinner) one.

    My theory is that the parts catalogues (ETK) missed the air con requirement and thus are only right 99% of the time.

    BTW when I search my model of car I see a number of people wrestling with poor shifting issues that are elusive.

    So, does anyone have solid evidence or experience with this issue?

    1988 325is with AIR CONDITIONING.

    Thanks
    Ron
    Branan

    '81 633 csi
    '88 325 is
    -Getting prepped for S50

    #2
    I've never heard of a connection between the flywheel and AC but it seems to me the TOB has to go with the flywheel
    Seat Shocks....I have passed the baton to John Christy from Ninestitch. Email John or Garrett at ninestitch1@gmail.com

    https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...86#post4944786
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    http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=360504
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    Comment


      #3
      i have aircon and single mass FW, realoem says single mass



      Last edited by digger; 01-14-2016, 04:18 PM.
      89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

      new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks for the response.

        Yes, I've looked at this....

        To be specific realoem says "3' E30 325i Flywheel / Twin Mass Flywheel"

        and the part number "11221706573" is the same for single and dual mass flywheels! Yup.

        This is why 99% recommend the single mass flywheel, they assume the part number is single because that has become the response 99% of the time.

        ECS = 99%
        Here are 2 listings that list dual mass
        http://www.partsgeek.com/mmparts/fly...bmw/325is.html (scroll to '88 and '89)


        I am pursuing new information that irrefutably resolves this.




        Branan

        '81 633 csi
        '88 325 is
        -Getting prepped for S50

        Comment


          #5
          Agreed.

          In conversion kits that replace dual mass to single, the kit includes a longer TOB...or a thicker pressure plate to accommodate that difference in thickness.

          Now, I need to be damn sure my car came with dual mass before I have the trans re and re'd, again.


          Originally posted by jeffnhiscars View Post
          I've never heard of a connection between the flywheel and AC but it seems to me the TOB has to go with the flywheel
          Branan

          '81 633 csi
          '88 325 is
          -Getting prepped for S50

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Branan View Post
            Thanks for the response.

            Yes, I've looked at this....

            To be specific realoem says "3' E30 325i Flywheel / Twin Mass Flywheel"

            and the part number "11221706573" is the same for single and dual mass flywheels! Yup.

            This is why 99% recommend the single mass flywheel, they assume the part number is single because that has become the response 99% of the time.

            ECS = 99%
            Here are 2 listings that list dual mass
            http://www.partsgeek.com/mmparts/fly...bmw/325is.html (scroll to '88 and '89)


            I am pursuing new information that irrefutably resolves this.
            both links show pics of a single mass, regardless of name

            same here


            ive not seen a dual mass for m20b25 but there will be a different P/N (somewhere)

            wouldnt you have got the right clutch kit and TOB knowing you have a single mass installed when you pulled it apart?

            try calling MM
            89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

            new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

            Comment


              #7
              dual mass flywheel P/N for SETA

              21211225979

              89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

              new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

              Comment


                #8
                Thanks Digger.

                Yes, there is a part number for twin mass and under it lists an 88 325....
                So there's another vote for twin mass existing for this car = 1%

                Originally posted by digger View Post
                dual mass flywheel P/N for SETA

                21211225979

                https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...el-21211225979
                Branan

                '81 633 csi
                '88 325 is
                -Getting prepped for S50

                Comment


                  #9
                  Yes, both times I had the clutch and trans I had the shops make sure that the clutch and tob were correct for the single mass flywheel installed.

                  However, if the flywheel was originally twin and replaced with single, then the clutch and tob will be wrong. It would require a conversion kit.

                  Originally posted by digger View Post
                  both links show pics of a single mass, regardless of name

                  same here


                  ive not seen a dual mass for m20b25 but there will be a different P/N (somewhere)

                  wouldnt you have got the right clutch kit and TOB knowing you have a single mass installed when you pulled it apart?

                  try calling MM
                  Branan

                  '81 633 csi
                  '88 325 is
                  -Getting prepped for S50

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Also, have a look at this thread......both parties seem to have legit real world experience.

                    Imagine if you could have asked "do any of these cars have aircon?"

                    Branan

                    '81 633 csi
                    '88 325 is
                    -Getting prepped for S50

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Branan View Post
                      Thanks Digger.

                      Yes, there is a part number for twin mass and under it lists an 88 325....
                      So there's another vote for twin mass existing for this car = 1%
                      is it a diff P//N? ive only seen listed under the ETA no dual mass under the 325i/is except the "heading"
                      89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

                      new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

                      Comment


                        #12
                        OK, so, my dealer has now come back with a position.

                        Although he admits the manuals and parts catalogues are not clear and he could be wrong, by crossreferencing my car with a z1 (?) he believes I do have a single mass flywheel.

                        So, back to the drawing board, again.

                        R
                        Branan

                        '81 633 csi
                        '88 325 is
                        -Getting prepped for S50

                        Comment


                          #13
                          What you need are YOUR transmission's measurements.

                          That's all that's going to affect what the clutch is doing.
                          As long as you've got a single mass flywheel and are using
                          a single mass clutch cover and disc, the pack will function correctly
                          IF you're getting the right throwout travel. And you can figure out what
                          that is from measuring the depth of the bellhousing to the
                          'fingers' that carry the throwout.

                          Then you need the OE numbers, and from there, you get a real answer.

                          I have no idea what those numbers are.

                          t
                          now, sometimes I just mess with people. It's more entertaining that way. george graves

                          Comment

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