Roll bar + harness for occasional track use?

[Ryan...]

At some point this year I'm planning on taking my e30 to Road America and Blackhawk Farms for a track day or two. I've been to both with my track bike before, but I'm about ready to give up the 2 wheel dream for safety/job reasons.

Moving forward, I'm thinking about upgrading my awesome stock comfort seats to a set of reclining Bride's out of my cousin's totaled e36, and I would like to use a harness for track days while retaining the OEM 3 point harness for street use. My car is and always will be a road car, used 5-10 times a month.


I know that there are safety concerns in using a roll bar + harness in the event of a rollover (not allowing driver to move side to side in case roof collapses), so I want to keep the OEM belts as an option driving too and from the track.

My question is, for those of you using a harness and roll bar, where do you mount the harness if you also want to keep the OEM belts? I have no idea where the typical mounting points are for harnesses in e30s..

Attached is the Road America checklist, and it says "Seat belts/anchors" so I want to make sure that when I roll up I'd be allowed on track with whatever set up I end up with.

Thanks!

[TobyB]

The safety 'concern' is with a 5- point and NO roll bar.

I used 4" square plates through the floor for the 3 lap points,
and the roll bar for the shoulders. I had to add a cross bar, but it
then got my harness and the passenger's.

t

[mitchlevy7]

I have run these before with e36 vaders and a roll bar.

http://www.bimmerworld.com/Safety-Race-Interior/Harnesses/SCHROTH-Quick-Fit-4-Point-Harness-E46-E30-3-Series.html

They use the OEM seatbelt receptacles and are easy to move to the side and remove and still use an OEM belt. They are DOT compliant too so techincally you can use them on the street. I loved them.

[athayer187]

If the car was totaled in an accident and there was someone in the seat, I probably wouldn't put that seat in a track car... FWIW.

Also, for a roll bar in a street car be very careful. Belts stretch, and a 3 point won't keep you as contained as a 5/6 point harness. Easy to crack your head on the roll bar in a low speed accident on the street. Again, FWIW.

Proper roll bar/seat/harness combination and tightness would mean that you can't reach the radio to change the station, or the climate controls.

[mindspin311]

You can buy a Kirk 4pt bolt in bar. Run a 6pt harness. And, keep your factory belts. But I wouldn't touch a seat that's been involved in an accident.

[Ryan...]

Thanks guys, good points about the seats being involved in a crash. He had a 30 mph head on collision, seats look to be in good condition, but I guess there's no real way to know if they're still as structurally sound as they once were.


So, running a HARNESS BAR + harness on the street without a roll bar is the big no-no, right? Due to the rollover concerns?

I have run these before with e36 vaders and a roll bar.

http://www.bimmerworld.com/Safety-Race-Interior/Harnesses/SCHROTH-Quick-Fit-4-Point-Harness-E46-E30-3-Series.html

They use the OEM seatbelt receptacles and are easy to move to the side and remove and still use an OEM belt. They are DOT compliant too so techincally you can use them on the street. I loved them.

Those look great, but from what I recall reading elsewhere (perhaps a 911 forum?), aren't there potential safety issues with mounting the back straps low? Spinal compression or some such thing? I'm guessing if Schroth developed that they've done their homework and deemed it to be safe.

[mindspin311]

Harness bars are junk, wouldn't run them on the track, definitely not the street.

Harnesses on the street are also a no-no, you dont have the rest of your required safety gear to properly survive a crash wearing only a harness. Think Dale Earnhardt. Keep your factory 3pt.

The Schroth quick fits are fine. They are OK mounting low in the rear because they have a built in device that will prevent submarine/spinal compression. Read Schroth's website, not what some guy on the internet says. Including myself.

Fixed back seats without a roll bar is also bad. They wont give way in the event that you are on your roof. Factory seats will collapse under the pressure.

So, it really boils down to 2 options if you want harnesses for track days.

1. Schroth quick fits with a stock seat
2. Full blown harness, with roll bar and proper seat

[TobyB]

Read Schroth's website, not what some guy on the internet says. Including myself.

This, above all else.

I dunno about the roof thing, though, people on the internet get pretty fumed about
the roof coming down, and that doesn't happen on street or track
all that often. But it's your melon. I ran the roll bar.

I personally don't think the stock car is designed
to help you much if the roof comes in- the airbag is holding you mostly upright, then blam,
you get your headliner for a hat? That's not going to be good.
At the point that the cabin is that compromised, you're not doing well no matter how
you're strapped in.

But again, I ran a roll bar, for my own peace of mind. It made me feel sexy, too. And:

And yes, the shoulder harnesses should go back from your shoulders approximately parallel
to the ground, and be no longer than necessary. Thus, the roll bar with the harness
attachment points is very good.

AND at that point, buy a HANS or similar. Really. It's not worth NOT doing. In fact,
I'd say the HANS is more important than the roll bar by a factor of 10. But get both.
Because the roll bar is such a good harness attachment point, if nothing else.

AND a 6 point is not needed in an upright sedan.
I know, I've wrecked hard with a 5 point,
and had kids afterwards. The 6 point's only essential in a reclining car.
In a sedan, you don't submarine, your head is trying to pull you UP as you go forward.
My video shows me hanging off the harness exactly as if the nose of the car was pointed straight down.
And as if we were on Jupiter...

these are my opinions, of course, but they've worked for me.

t

[Ryan...]

1. Schroth quick fits with a stock seat
2. Full blown harness, with roll bar and proper seat

I think I'm leaning more towards 1, potentially with an aftermarket reclining seat (think Sparco R100 or similar) with bolsters to better hold me in place. The stock comfort seats aren't even suitable for semi-aggressive street driving on back roads.

these are my opinions, of course, but they've worked for me.

t

I appreciate you taking the time to type it all out, I appreciate it!

[mindspin311]

I think I'm leaning more towards 1, potentially with an aftermarket reclining seat (think Sparco R100 or similar) with bolsters to better hold me in place. The stock comfort seats aren't even suitable for semi-aggressive street driving on back roads.



I appreciate you taking the time to type it all out, I appreciate it!

The other thing to consider, which I originally forgot.

You an get the Quick Fit PRO version which will allow you to wear a HANS. The shoulder straps of the Pro version connect to a center buckle, so it puts the should straps in the correct position to work with the HANS. The standard Quick Fit does not do this.

[Ryan...]

I'm guessing the HANS device isn't required for track days/auto-X, likely just sanctioned racing right?

I like the idea of added protection, but if it's not required it would probably be further down my list of stuff to buy than proper seats and harnesses for the track.

*I still intend to use the standard 3 point belt for daily driving*

[mindspin311]

I'm guessing the HANS device isn't required for track days/auto-X, likely just sanctioned racing right?

I like the idea of added protection, but if it's not required it would probably be further down my list of stuff to buy than proper seats and harnesses for the track.

*I still intend to use the standard 3 point belt for daily driving*

Not required for DEs, just heavily suggested.

[e30davie]

Years ago we had a harness bar in an ae86 that went between the two rear shock towers. AE86 rear seat folds down so you can just flip the seats down and put the harnensses on. allowed a harness bar without a rollbar. and the straps were at an acceptable angle. w

Unsure if such a thing would suit e30, shock towers might be alot further back.

[Digitalwave]

https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=201326&page=4

^ Pages 4/5 of that thread are pertinent to your questions.

[Ryan...]

^^ Good link, thanks!