What Brakes for E30 S50

[Panda_Disco]

I'm still sans E30 but am in the planning stages at the moment... I plan for nothing too crazy just hopefully an S50 daily-driveable (during the good months) E30 with more attention spent towards suspension & brakes than power.

I plan to do a 5-lug conversion for more brake/wheel options.

My question is, what brakes would you guys recommend to handle the power of the S50?

Are E30 M3 brakes enough w/ street pads, stainless braided lines, cross-drilled rotors, and some ATE super blue?

The car will be mostly daily driven but should see some AutoX and maybe 1 or 2 track days.

So what do you guys think?

Thanks!


-Ben

[whiltebeitel]

First off, cross-drilled rotors are not worth it. They crack under stress. If you are going to make only a few track days, Valvoline Synpower has a slightly lower boiling point than ATE, and is significantly cheaper, also available at any part's store. I'd use Hawk HPS as a good street pad. That will be all you'd need with m3 brakes. you're not going to make that much more power that it is a issue. The brakes will be fine. The tires are more of a concern for you.

[bimerok]

First off, cross-drilled rotors are not worth it. They crack under stress. If you are going to make only a few track days, Valvoline Synpower has a slightly lower boiling point than ATE, and is significantly cheaper, also available at any part's store. I'd use Hawk HPS as a good street pad. That will be all you'd need with m3 brakes. you're not going to make that much more power that it is a issue. The brakes will be fine. The tires are more of a concern for you.

Great way of misinforming and generalization.

You didn't even asked what cross-drilled rotors Panda is going with and already replied that they crack under stress…
I rode hard my Zimmermann Cross-Drilled for about 3 years without a single sign of cracking. Only machined them once and back on it again. (Brembo are the ones known to crack).

As far as brake fluid goes: is $11 that much for ATE brake fluid (btw $11 gets you more then enough for complete brake/clutch flush) that you need to get something that is SIGNIFICANTLY CHEAPER?

S50 IS SIGNIFICANTLY more power and brakes do need attention. (if it wasn’t making that much power why tires would be of a concern?)

PANDA, I have SS Lines, ATE Super Blue fluid and the difference in braking compared to stock is already huge.

I just got my Zimmermann Cross Drilled rotors and will probably go with Akebono Euro Ceramic Pads. I like the feel of these pads for daily driver.

Also just to emphasize, cross-drills make big difference. The sponginess of overheated brakes is almost out and the cool down is much faster.

[pogiboy9]

Great way of misinforming and generalization.

You didn't even asked what cross-drilled rotors Panda is going with and already replied that they crack under stress…
I rode hard my Zimmermann Cross-Drilled for about 3 years without a single sign of cracking. Only machined them once and back on it again. (Brembo are the ones known to crack).

As far as brake fluid goes: is $11 that much for ATE brake fluid (btw $11 gets you more then enough for complete brake/clutch flush) that you need to get something that is SIGNIFICANTLY CHEAPER?

S50 IS SIGNIFICANTLY more power and brakes do need attention. (if it wasn’t making that much power why tires would be of a concern?)

PANDA, I have SS Lines, ATE Super Blue fluid and the difference in braking compared to stock is already huge.

I just got my Zimmermann Cross Drilled rotors and will probably go with Akebono Euro Ceramic Pads. I like the feel of these pads for daily driver.

Also just to emphasize, cross-drills make big difference. The sponginess of overheated brakes is almost out and the cool down is much faster.

I agree, I've purchased zimmermans for both my E36 and E30...Daily Driver on both whatever i feel...I love em !!! and i haven't had signs of crack or harsh wear.

And i'm sure when he refers to cracking its on higher end of the stress table, iE when u auto-x, canyon run, or always Slamming etc etc. nonetheless i haven't had problems with zimmermans.

And its been a question thats common for people doing s50 swaps...i think theres someone on r3v or e30tech thats running S50 with stock brakes and auto-x

[bimerok]

I just did a spirited run "around my block" last weekend after finishing my suspension. It was about 60 degrees outside and I start feeling my stock pads and rotors were on the way to act up.

I also must admit, I don’t have my brake ducts hooked up yet.

[whiltebeitel]

Great way of misinforming and generalization.

You didn't even asked what cross-drilled rotors Panda is going with and already replied that they crack under stress…
I rode hard my Zimmermann Cross-Drilled for about 3 years without a single sign of cracking. Only machined them once and back on it again. (Brembo are the ones known to crack).

As far as brake fluid goes: is $11 that much for ATE brake fluid (btw $11 gets you more then enough for complete brake/clutch flush) that you need to get something that is SIGNIFICANTLY CHEAPER?

S50 IS SIGNIFICANTLY more power and brakes do need attention. (if it wasn’t making that much power why tires would be of a concern?)

PANDA, I have SS Lines, ATE Super Blue fluid and the difference in braking compared to stock is already huge.

I just got my Zimmermann Cross Drilled rotors and will probably go with Akebono Euro Ceramic Pads. I like the feel of these pads for daily driver.

Also just to emphasize, cross-drills make big difference. The sponginess of overheated brakes is almost out and the cool down is much faster.

I can't get ATE super blue at the O'reilly's down the street. If I have a problem at the track, I don't want to be forced to mix differnt tyoes of fluid. I'm not sure where you get the idea that a stock-typ rotor with holes drilled into it is a good idea, or that it actually vents the rotor at all (the only exception is the solid rear rotor on the non-m e30, can't confirm if the E30M3 has internally vented rear or not) If cross-drilling is so awesome, how come Massive Lee doent use it? How many peopel have 300 whp turbo and run stock-type brakes? How about all the Spec E30 guys that don't run cross-drilled rotors? Think there might be a reason why? If the car is not tracked, then the cooling effect are moot, since street brakes do not get hot enough, unless you think the street is a good place to drive 8/10th or more. A good pad, good bleeding, and good tires are going to make the biggest difference in braking for him. I'm not discounting SS lines, I have a set myself.

Again, if you do track the car, cooling becomes an issue, and cross-drilled rotors tend to have hairline cracks develop, unless the hole are cast in. The grain of the metal will be much more likely to propogate cracks if it does not flow around the hole. If you want the look on your street car, that's fine. It is not a performace upgrade.

I have stock-style pads and rotors, have tracked them, noticed slight fade from the crappy street-compound pads, but nothing more. I'm changing to Hawk HPS as soon as these are ready to replace.

This guy is doing a 5-lug anyway. M3 brakes are'nt too sabby on the track. if he wants even more brake, then I'd suggest e36 m3 brakes. He's already doing a 5-lug, i'm just suggesting that a BBK isn't something he needs, and cross-drilled rotors won't make a difference.

[Brew]

Cross-drilled or slotted OE-replacement rotors ARE known to crack under track usage- in fact, there is a warning in the description of all of them on Tire Rack's site.

For street and auto-x, well-maintained e30 m3 brakes should be more than sufficient with good pads and fluid. Depending on how hard you drive, whether you're using r-comps, etc, you may find their limit on the track.

[whiltebeitel]

Thank you, Brew. The E30 M3 was build to exceed the needs of the 197 hp of the s14, so 240 isn't too much more.

[Jean]

Solid rotors of good quality (brembo blanks are only what $30 each?), good pads + good fluid FTW.

I've had great results with Carbotech Panther+ pads and Motul RBF600 fluid on my r32 with stock 13" solid rotors. Burned the paint off the calipers after first session of hpde and still had 0 brake fade all day.

[SA E30]

What I'm going to run on my s50b30euro race car...

E46 M3 discs' all around , WRX Sti Calipers up front , and E46 M3 std rear callipers...

Although I'm not sure how well the E46 rear's will work out for someone wanting to maintain the handbrake, as some machining is required to get it to work with a std e30 brake shoe setup.

Although I think this would be overkill on a street car :P

[Van Westervelt]

People do undestimate he ability of well sorted e30 brakes. A stock s50 is less power then most of the turbo guys are running. Before you go through the money time and effort of 5 lug, redo all the brakes, and see.

Another s50 e30 in pdx huh ;)

[bimerok]

I can't get ATE super blue at the O'reilly's down the street. If I have a problem at the track, I don't want to be forced to mix differnt tyoes of fluid. I'm not sure where you get the idea that a stock-typ rotor with holes drilled into it is a good idea, or that it actually vents the rotor at all (the only exception is the solid rear rotor on the non-m e30, can't confirm if the E30M3 has internally vented rear or not) If cross-drilling is so awesome, how come Massive Lee doent use it? How many peopel have 300 whp turbo and run stock-type brakes? How about all the Spec E30 guys that don't run cross-drilled rotors? Think there might be a reason why? If the car is not tracked, then the cooling effect are moot, since street brakes do not get hot enough, unless you think the street is a good place to drive 8/10th or more. A good pad, good bleeding, and good tires are going to make the biggest difference in braking for him. I'm not discounting SS lines, I have a set myself.

Again, if you do track the car, cooling becomes an issue, and cross-drilled rotors tend to have hairline cracks develop, unless the hole are cast in. The grain of the metal will be much more likely to propogate cracks if it does not flow around the hole. If you want the look on your street car, that's fine. It is not a performace upgrade.

I have stock-style pads and rotors, have tracked them, noticed slight fade from the crappy street-compound pads, but nothing more. I'm changing to Hawk HPS as soon as these are ready to replace.

This guy is doing a 5-lug anyway. M3 brakes are'nt too sabby on the track. if he wants even more brake, then I'd suggest e36 m3 brakes. He's already doing a 5-lug, i'm just suggesting that a BBK isn't something he needs, and cross-drilled rotors won't make a difference.

If you don't want to use ATE Super Blue then you don't have to. My reply about it was that the cost of that fluid is only $11. The fluid is great quality. There are NO SIGNIFICANT SAVINGS by using any other fluid (Unless they pay you to use it. Then it becomes a gain)

I will say again Zimmermann Cross drilled rotors are of very good quality and are better then Brembo (Which are known to crack). Again I have used them a lot, know people who used them a lot as well, and there were absolutely no Cracking issues.

As far as practicality and effect of cross drilled rotors: According to you (and some others), cross drilled rotors were only invented for looks and don't do shit... Right on!

[10/10ths]

Also just to emphasize, cross-drills make big difference. The sponginess of overheated brakes is almost out and the cool down is much faster.

Talk about misinforming. I simply did not notice any difference in drilled rotors vs. stock, except my pads wore faster...I think most would agree.

Cross-drilling rotors is an old practice that does not have any real benefit for us today. Modern pads do not need cross drilling to vent gasses away (which is why they were created decades ago with OLD pad technology)

"the sponginess of overheated brakes"....brake fade, I believe could possibly even be worse with cross drilled. There is not as much surface area to absorb the energy, you may have to brake slightly sooner and longer to slow your car enough.

IMO cross drilling offers no benefit

My current setup stops the car hard and fast, lap after lap.

Hawk HP+ pads (noisy but fast)
Brembo stock rotors
ATE blue
Stainless lines (no performance increase except for durability)
Backing plates removed
Cooling ducts
M3 master cylinder

I dont think going to the s50 will require a huge brake overhall, you would make more of a difference in braking with tires and removing weight/lightweight parts.

[bimerok]

Cross-drilling rotors is an old practice that does not have any real benefit for us today. Modern pads do not need cross drilling to vent gasses away (which is why they were created decades ago with OLD pad technology)

That is why Porsche (and others) are still using this OLD and "useless" technology. As always these leaders in innovations like Porsche are always behind righ?

"the sponginess of overheated brakes"....brake fade, I believe could possibly even be worse with cross drilled.

Would you mind giving explanation as to how that would worsen with cross drilled? I would like to hear your theory.

[2002maniac]

Stock E30M3 brakes will be great. Just be sure to change to track pads when you go to the track.