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M20 Management shootout, MS2 vs Haltech vs?

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    #76
    anyway back on track.......... anyone know anything about this? another MS PNP ?

    Das kdFi ist ein universelles programmierbares Motorsteuergerät für Zündung und Einspritzung, welches es auch PNP für BMW, Opel und VAG in unserem…
    89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

    new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

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      #77
      Originally posted by digger View Post
      anyway back on track.......... anyone know anything about this? another MS PNP ?

      http://www.k-data.org/kdfi-pnp-bmw-m20.html
      Seems like it's a pretty comprehensive kit. On board lambda control, Microsquirt and ~$750 with shipping and a Bosch sensor.
      john@m20guru.com
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        #78
        Originally posted by ForcedFirebird View Post
        Seems like it's a pretty comprehensive kit. On board lambda control, Microsquirt and ~$750 with shipping and a Bosch sensor.
        Nice find, they have a pnp for the m42. I was just considering running ms2 on the s38b36, they have an option for that, I can't read german, what software would you use to tune it? Tunerstudio?
        318iS Track Rat :nice: www.drive4corners.com
        '86 325iX 3.1 Stroker Turbo '86 S38B36 325

        No one makes this car anymore. The government won't allow them, normal people won't buy them. So it's up to us: the freaks, the weirdos, the informed. To buy them, to appreciate them, and most importantly, to drive them.

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          #79
          Originally posted by downforce22 View Post
          Nice find, they have a pnp for the m42. I was just considering running ms2 on the s38b36, they have an option for that, I can't read german, what software would you use to tune it? Tunerstudio?

          In the upper right corner, you will see a German and UK flag. Click on the UK and it will translate for you ;)

          Das kdFi ist ein universelles programmierbares Motorsteuergerät für Zündung und Einspritzung, welches es auch PNP für BMW, Opel und VAG in unserem…
          john@m20guru.com
          Links:
          Transaction feedback: Here, here and here. Thanks :D

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            #80
            This website is for sale! twinkam.co.uk is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, twinkam.co.uk has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!
            89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

            new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

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              #81
              Originally posted by squidmaster View Post
              I came here to offer information for everyone based on months of work, research, and repeatable experiments. I guess i have nothing to offer those that already know everything. You guys are a riot.
              Originally posted by squidmaster View Post
              Since you're all experts in every field that's ever exited, you don't need me to tell you anything. I guess my 13 years in the field and college degrees have taught me nothing at all. oh well.
              It sounds like you're the one stuck in the dick measuring contest :devil:. I too have my Honors in Mechanical Engineering (Thesis on indirect calibration of Hot wire mass airflow sensors) and years of experience in FEM assisted design and industrial controls/automation. You don't hear me wanging on about it.

              All I can see is people asking (very) relevant questions regarding your methods, which you seem to get disgruntled and defensive. You keep saying that others are 'experts' who wont listen. Try turning the tables. You're asking to have your thoughts/experiments taken as gospel...

              Really you should be used to people asking annoyingly specific questions or questions relating to how you do things, especially since you're an engineer. I'm surprised you can't handle a few simple questions, or take the time to explain the reasoning of your results and their merit to those who might not understand.

              IMHO CFD is most definitely reliant on accurate boundary conditions in a time dependency simulation. It looks like you're using Solidworks flow simulation to do the analysis which I assume you have setup the design to be time dependent and have determined the pressures at the cylinder inlets (from your excel sheet thingo as you mentioned). It sounds like you have done everything as it would be expected to get a true to life simulation in action. I have no reason to doubt the results you have obtained, I was just weighing in on a discussion I thought was going somewhere interesting
              -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              For the record, I am running a DIYPNP on my M20B29 and have no real issues. I like the expandability of the megasquirt stuff and the fact I can make my own changes and implementation of the codes as required. I like that I can do whatever the heck I want and not have to jump through hoops unlike most of the bigger brands ;) (who will change you just to 'enable' a secondary wideband or EGT probes etc.).

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                #82
                Originally posted by MercyFlush View Post
                It sounds like you're the one stuck in the dick measuring contest :devil:. I too have my Honors in Mechanical Engineering (Thesis on indirect calibration of Hot wire mass airflow sensors) and years of experience in FEM assisted design and industrial controls/automation. You don't hear me wanging on about it.



                All I can see is people asking (very) relevant questions regarding your methods, which you seem to get disgruntled and defensive. You keep saying that others are 'experts' who wont listen. Try turning the tables. You're asking to have your thoughts/experiments taken as gospel...



                Really you should be used to people asking annoyingly specific questions or questions relating to how you do things, especially since you're an engineer. I'm surprised you can't handle a few simple questions, or take the time to explain the reasoning of your results and their merit to those who might not understand.



                IMHO CFD is most definitely reliant on accurate boundary conditions in a time dependency simulation. It looks like you're using Solidworks flow simulation to do the analysis which I assume you have setup the design to be time dependent and have determined the pressures at the cylinder inlets (from your excel sheet thingo as you mentioned). It sounds like you have done everything as it would be expected to get a true to life simulation in action. I have no reason to doubt the results you have obtained, I was just weighing in on a discussion I thought was going somewhere interesting

                -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                For the record, I am running a DIYPNP on my M20B29 and have no real issues. I like the expandability of the megasquirt stuff and the fact I can make my own changes and implementation of the codes as required. I like that I can do whatever the heck I want and not have to jump through hoops unlike most of the bigger brands ;) (who will change you just to 'enable' a secondary wideband or EGT probes etc.).


                Curious as to which of the bigger brands you are referring too. Non of the ones that I have experience with charge you for extra features.
                The fact that MS wants $100 for their software puts a bad taste in my mouth personally.

                I'd personally prefer to spend a little more $ up front and buy an ECU that can already do it all, rather then solder more wires on and have to create custom calibrations for simple things like a barometric correction sensor or actual closed loop knock control. O, and have a manufacture that i can call for support if i have a hardware problem.


                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                Last edited by berlow94; 01-05-2017, 07:57 AM.
                The best one-stop shopping for German car parts and lifestyle: http://www.gutenparts.com/

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                  #83
                  TunerStudio is free. You can see the code, and you know what you are doing, it's overly difficult to manipulate. Charging would be opposite of the open source MS strives to be.
                  john@m20guru.com
                  Links:
                  Transaction feedback: Here, here and here. Thanks :D

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                    #84
                    Originally posted by ForcedFirebird View Post
                    TunerStudio is free. You can see the code, and you know what you are doing, it's overly difficult to manipulate. Charging would be opposite of the open source MS strives to be.


                    Tuner studio Lite is free which gives you very limited tuning options.
                    Tuner studio MS is $60 and ultra is $100.

                    I only bring this up because "paying to unlock features" was mentioned.
                    All of the software and features on the "big brand" ecu's I mentioned are free.


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                    The best one-stop shopping for German car parts and lifestyle: http://www.gutenparts.com/

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                      #85
                      Originally posted by berlow94 View Post
                      Curious as to which of the bigger brands you are referring too. Non of the ones that I have experience with charge you for extra features.
                      The fact that MS wants $100 for their software puts a bad taste in my mouth personally.

                      I'd personally prefer to spend a little more $ up front and buy an ECU that can already do it all, rather then solder more wires on and have to create custom calibrations for simple things like a barometric correction sensor or actual closed loop knock control. O, and have a manufacture that i can call for support if i have a hardware problem.


                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                      I might be a little outdated but the Motec's I have used previously have been extremely expensive. I'm talking like $2k+ just to get the wideband 'add on', then there was (iirc) another ridiculous cost to turn on the live tuning mode for the Speed Density mode.

                      That's really the only one I guess which has left a very bad taste in my mouth. I have never tried a cheaper ECU like a Haltech or such, but I have heard mixed reviews which generally seem positive. They are probably more akin to a megasquirt Pro than any of the Motec stuff.

                      I understand your view on the OEM style of device that you get with the bigger brands, however I tell you what, I like being able to write my own code for custom calibrations if required (such as real time fuel pressure monitoring and injector flow rate adjustment) as well as the support you have with MSextra (community developed) which is always getting better. I imagine the costs for getting something like that added into the other ECUs would be pretty large. I'd expect it'd be $180/hr at least.

                      Plus, if you buy a PNP megasquirt you get it literally ready to go, and can expand to the hardware limits with no incursion of additional software or licensing costs. Or if you bought a MS3 Pro you will get the full amount of add ins out of the box. It'll do your full sequential ignition/fuel, closed loop boost control, knock detection/response, so on. Also the baro correction is pretty much already fully setup anyway, just whip in another pressure transducer and tell the ecu it's there and you can do real time correction on pretty much all MS's.

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                        #86
                        Originally posted by berlow94 View Post
                        Tuner studio Lite is free which gives you very limited tuning options.
                        Tuner studio MS is $60 and ultra is $100.

                        I only bring this up because "paying to unlock features" was mentioned.
                        All of the software and features on the "big brand" ecu's I mentioned are free.


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                        You aren't buying that because it's not available, you are paying for someone else to write that code for you. I understand what you are saying, but the definitions are editable without paying.
                        john@m20guru.com
                        Links:
                        Transaction feedback: Here, here and here. Thanks :D

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                          #87
                          Hey guys.

                          Finally got my MS3X after years of spectating on e30 tech. So sad that as soon as i got my crap together e30 tech is down. Must have been hacked by the Russians or something. lol

                          Anyway, @berlow. I think the $100 for the extra tuner studio features are a small price to pay. We already got into the tuning game for cheap with megasquirt, so a little extra here and there for features that you could only dream of a few years ago is not bad at all. For example, good aftermarket knock controllers can cost $600 and up. With the Megasquirt the price of admission is only $80 for the knock module and the same tunerstudio softare upgrade to program it. Not bad if you ask me.

                          I think I'm in $1000 dollars so far with MS3X, Innovative LC-2, the DIYBOB 55 pin adapter and temp sensor and TPS. Even after tuner studio upgrade you would still be under the price of other ECUs with those other hardware. I know MS is not the most rugged ECU case out there (try MS3 pro I guess)... but it really lowers the entry barrier IMO.

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                            #88
                            Originally posted by squidmaster View Post
                            Anyone want a hack up a manifold and put a maf sensor in each runner? Would be probably the only real test we can do haha
                            hmmm- pressure sensors, maybe...

                            and a fast logger.

                            t
                            now, sometimes I just mess with people. It's more entertaining that way. george graves

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