Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Charlie Gard

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    Originally posted by gwb72tii View Post
    the Gard situation is in fact a complete repudiation of Obamacare and all socialized medicine, something more than a few here think is a good idea.

    Gard cannot get to the medical treatment they desire because of socialized medicine. He's too young and the cost is too high so sorry mom and dad, your son is going to die. If they allow him treatment (and then others) it will bankrupt their medical system.

    So Holmes, maybe you'd like to be the one to explain tot he parents that for the good of the many, their son must be denied. As Sarah Palin said, you can be on the death panel.
    Insurance companies operate in the exact same manner. They are socialized by their very nature. I have in fact been denied for treatment before. Although I am fairly satisfied with my insurance.

    Comment


      #17
      This case has zero to do with insurance..... again the family has cash to pay for treatment, as well as offers to treat at no charge. It is a case of the hospital/govt claiming custody of a child over the legal parents wishes..... where Im from this would be considered kidnapping if it were anyone other than the govt.
      Last edited by naplesE30; 07-23-2017, 12:18 PM.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by LBJefferies View Post
        Insurance companies operate in the exact same manner. They are socialized by their very nature. I have in fact been denied for treatment before. Although I am fairly satisfied with my insurance.
        Hard to be for profit and "socialized", and you were not "denied" treatment you declined treatment because someone else was not going to pay for it, aka not covered by your plan, or because you didnt have the cash or means to afford it(there are ways around this for most), or did not deem it "necessary" for your self just how is this your insurers fault again ..........

        Plenty of people with some means, from places with govt H/C systems come to the the US and pay cash for treatments here, that they cant get or cant get in a timely manner in their home countries. There are time zone clocks all over at the Cleveland Clinic IN OHIO set to UTC+3, aka home time in Saudi Arabia, since they cater to so many Saudis getting their heart fixed........
        Originally posted by Fusion
        If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
        The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


        The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

        Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
        William Pitt-

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by naplesE30 View Post
          This case has zero to do with insurance..... again the family has cash to pay for treatment, as well as offers to treat at no charge. It is a case of the hospital/govt claiming custody of a child over the legal parents wishes..... where Im from this would be considered kidnapping if it were anyone other than the govt.
          Thank you. For those that wish single payer upon all of us, this case is exactly what you wish for, ceding control of yourself and family's healthcare to the state.
          Be careful what you wish for, you may get it.
          “There is nothing government can give you that it hasn’t taken from you in the first place”
          Sir Winston Churchill

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by gwb72tii View Post
            Thank you. For those that wish single payer upon all of us, this case is exactly what you wish for, ceding control of yourself and family's healthcare to the state.
            Be careful what you wish for, you may get it.
            In this particular case... I'm all for it. The child will have no life other than the literal physical sense from what I understand. The parents are being extremely selfish keeping that poor child alive and need to think about his QOL vs. satisfying their own needs/desires. It's a tough choice... Welcome to being a parent.
            "A good memory for quotes combined with a poor memory for attribution can lead to a false sense of originality."
            -----------------------------------------
            91 318is Turbo Sold
            87 325 Daily driver Sold
            06 4.8is X5
            06 Mtec X3
            05 4.4i X5 Sold
            92 325ic Sold & Re-purchased
            90 325i Sold
            97 328is Sold
            01 323ci Sold
            92 325i Sold
            83 528e Totaled
            98 328i Sold
            93 325i Sold

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Schnitzer318is View Post
              In this particular case... I'm all for it. The child will have no life other than the literal physical sense from what I understand. The parents are being extremely selfish keeping that poor child alive and need to think about his QOL vs. satisfying their own needs/desires. It's a tough choice... Welcome to being a parent.
              I am a parent.

              I wonder if you'd make the same choice if the shoe was on the other foot...
              “There is nothing government can give you that it hasn’t taken from you in the first place”
              Sir Winston Churchill

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by gwb72tii View Post
                I am a parent.

                I wonder if you'd make the same choice if the shoe was on the other foot...
                I'm a parent of 2. Yes, I would make that same choice. My wife and I discussed this at length before having children. Fortunately, our children were born healthy, but we had genetic and other tests done to indicate any problems while in-utero so that we could terminate if necessary.

                To further emphasize my feelings on this. I EXPECT my wife and/or kids to pull the plug on me should I lose my mental faculties to the point of being non-functional or not being able to recognize family/friends. I will not be a drain on the people I love... neither financially or emotionally.

                Edit: Let me be clear though. This is a very sad situation. I do empathize with the parents and feel for them and the decision they are dealing with. But that does not change the fact that they are holding on to a child that is not able to live a life. They are grasping on to him and will be hurting their future financially, emotionally, and both of those things would seriously affect the lives of any future children they have.
                Last edited by Schnitzer318is; 07-26-2017, 11:03 AM.
                "A good memory for quotes combined with a poor memory for attribution can lead to a false sense of originality."
                -----------------------------------------
                91 318is Turbo Sold
                87 325 Daily driver Sold
                06 4.8is X5
                06 Mtec X3
                05 4.4i X5 Sold
                92 325ic Sold & Re-purchased
                90 325i Sold
                97 328is Sold
                01 323ci Sold
                92 325i Sold
                83 528e Totaled
                98 328i Sold
                93 325i Sold

                Comment


                  #23
                  As was already stated:

                  Parents raised the money, had the means to get him somewhere that was willing to use experiential treatments and give him a chance.

                  They wanted to give him a chance, but the Government and Hospital denied them that.

                  It's disgusting.


                  Even if keeping him alive would have created a burden for them, that's their choice to make, and no one else's.


                  The fact that the British Government is now dictating who is worth trying to save and who isn't, to the point of prevention those with the means of seeking treatment from doing so is frightening.
                  No E30 Club
                  Originally posted by MrBurgundy
                  Anyways, mustangs are gay and mini vans are faster than your car, you just have to deal with that.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Exodus_2pt0 View Post
                    As was already stated:

                    Parents raised the money, had the means to get him somewhere that was willing to use experiential treatments and give him a chance.

                    They wanted to give him a chance,
                    A chance at what though? It was my understanding that it was just a chance at literal life, but no brain function, or semblance of psychological existence could be regained due to the damage caused by all of his seizures.

                    ^If my above understanding is incorrect, then I withdraw my position.

                    You can say it's the parent's choice, and you'd be right. I support their right to make the decision (though I realize my first post made it sound like I was for "death panels") even if they are making the wrong one. It's the wrong one for themselves, possibly their future children, but most importantly... the wrong one for this boy who died existentially back in January.
                    "A good memory for quotes combined with a poor memory for attribution can lead to a false sense of originality."
                    -----------------------------------------
                    91 318is Turbo Sold
                    87 325 Daily driver Sold
                    06 4.8is X5
                    06 Mtec X3
                    05 4.4i X5 Sold
                    92 325ic Sold & Re-purchased
                    90 325i Sold
                    97 328is Sold
                    01 323ci Sold
                    92 325i Sold
                    83 528e Totaled
                    98 328i Sold
                    93 325i Sold

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Exodus_2pt0 View Post
                      As was already stated:

                      Parents raised the money, had the means to get him somewhere that was willing to use experiential treatments and give him a chance.

                      They wanted to give him a chance, but the Government and Hospital denied them that.

                      It's disgusting.


                      Even if keeping him alive would have created a burden for them, that's their choice to make, and no one else's.


                      The fact that the British Government is now dictating who is worth trying to save and who isn't, to the point of prevention those with the means of seeking treatment from doing so is frightening.
                      and every single doctor that has examined this child's condition has come to the same conclusion that he will not recover, he is in pain and he will, unfortunately, die.

                      it's a complex moral question whether or not parents have a right to keep a child alive who is near death and in constant pain and unlikely to recover.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        If you aren't conscious, can you feel pain?

                        I'm still confused as to why allowing an experimental treatment, just see the results, would have been a bad idea in the eyes of the NHS?

                        Treating the child as a guinea pig? Yes. Could it help advance medical science? Absolutely.
                        Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
                        Chief Sales Officer, Midwest Division—Blunt Tech Industries

                        www.gutenparts.com
                        One stop shopping for NEW, USED and EURO PARTS!

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by BraveUlysses View Post
                          and every single doctor that has examined this child's condition has come to the same conclusion that he will not recover, he is in pain and he will, unfortunately, die.

                          it's a complex moral question whether or not parents have a right to keep a child alive who is near death and in constant pain and unlikely to recover.
                          Baloney, it's not a complex decision whatsoever. It is immoral and unethical for anyone but the parents to have a decision in this. There are laws preventing abuse of the child, of the parents making irrational decisions not in the child's best interests.The decision should be left with them.

                          This is a slippery slope that should concern anyone that believes their healthcare decisions are better left to the state and some faceless bureaucrat.

                          And 318is, I have made similar life decisions having to do with dementia and quality of life for me and others, but it is my decision, not the state's decision. Apples and oranges comparison to the child.
                          “There is nothing government can give you that it hasn’t taken from you in the first place”
                          Sir Winston Churchill

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by gwb72tii View Post
                            making irrational decisions not in the child's best interests.The decision should be left with them.
                            This is exactly what they are doing by keeping the child alive, in a vegetative state. Making an irrational decision not in the best interest of the child.

                            And I understand dementia/Alzheimer's situations as well. Unfortunately it runs in the family which is one of the hugely formative influences that drives my positions on these types of situations.

                            And as I clarified, I am not for the state making these decisions for the parents... though, as I conceded, it did sound that way. My point is, they are making the wrong decision. The state did not kill the child, but ruled that it would not be in his best interest to move him to another facility. The doctors caring for him withdrew their support of trying any experimental treatments after another round of seizures in Dec/Jan rendered him no longer a candidate. The poor kid is a lost cause being used as a pawn for political posturing and perhaps (most likely), the notoriety of his situation is being used to further the careers/fame of some looking to take advantage.
                            "A good memory for quotes combined with a poor memory for attribution can lead to a false sense of originality."
                            -----------------------------------------
                            91 318is Turbo Sold
                            87 325 Daily driver Sold
                            06 4.8is X5
                            06 Mtec X3
                            05 4.4i X5 Sold
                            92 325ic Sold & Re-purchased
                            90 325i Sold
                            97 328is Sold
                            01 323ci Sold
                            92 325i Sold
                            83 528e Totaled
                            98 328i Sold
                            93 325i Sold

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by gwb72tii View Post
                              Baloney, it's not a complex decision whatsoever. It is immoral and unethical for anyone but the parents to have a decision in this. There are laws preventing abuse of the child, of the parents making irrational decisions not in the child's best interests.The decision should be left with them.

                              This is a slippery slope that should concern anyone that believes their healthcare decisions are better left to the state and some faceless bureaucrat.
                              I would say that in this case the physicians caring for Mr. Gard are attempting to prevent further harm by the parents, who momentarily have forgotten humans are mortal and will all eventually perish. The physicians who have a legal and fiduciary duty to care for Mr. Gard have uniformly decided that transport would amount to unnecessary harm to their patient, and are acting in the child's best interests to prevent harm.

                              This is not an example of healthcare decisions being left to the state. The decisions are made by the medical doctors caring for the patient; they only have to rely on the state because the parents are being delusional. As a society we need to learn to accept inevitable death in the face of overwhelming odds rather than use media avenues to exploit children for the sake of our own delusions.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Schnitzer318is View Post
                                The poor kid is a lost cause being used as a pawn for political posturing
                                exactly

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X