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    #16
    By r-comps I meant an R Compound tire. I'm not sure how they rate the tires you can get over their. Either way, I meant a good old fashion racing slick.

    Now you said something about treadlife, how long do you plan on trying to keep a set of tires, under racing conditions?
    85 325e m60b44 6 speed / 89 535i
    e30 restoration and V8 swap
    24 Hours of Lemons e30 build

    Comment


      #17
      I plan on using Road Legal Semi Slicks... as I still plan on driving the car to the track, and back (well to start with, and I'll see in the future if I modify it past road legal)

      Damn, I wish I could remember the name of the tyres...

      Tyres, well I'm not sure as long as they last I assume... thats not a big issue ATM, I'll see how long they last when I get there... I just liked the tyres and i've noticed the majority of ppl here use them.

      Comment


        #18
        Well, to be quite honest, if you don't have a lot of track experience, just put a good suspension setup on the car and drive it mostly stock. You will learn a lot more driving a slow car fast, than a fast car out of control.


        Keep it slideways!!

        Comment


          #19
          I would say you need to define your goals, then go from there. First, my experience is driving street cars at local race tracks for about 20 years with my local BMW club, volunteer instructing with my local BMW Club for 10 years, and for the past 8 years racing a BMW in amateur road racing.

          If your goal is to work through the engineering excercises of all these upgrades, and you enjoy that kind of work, then go for it. Short and sweet answer! :-)

          If you are looking to make yourself a skillful driver, I would suggest a basic setup, then spend all that saved money on brake pads and tires (consumables) and enter a lot of driving events.

          My race car is very fast, but is built to run in a spec class. Because we don't get to upgrade the car ever after building it up to the spec, when I post a new fast lap time for myself, I know that I improved as a driver, rather than knowing that a new bolt on item made the car faster. Because I compete in amateur road racing, I'm happy to control costs by running in a spec class. I also know that if someone beats me, they did it on merit, versus just throwing better parts at their car.

          If you do all of this build out on your E30, I would suggest doing it in stages. You'll better understand how each element changes the car if you change your baseline one element at a time. Sounds like you have hung around some race teams. They should be keeping copius notes on setups so when they get back to a track, they start with a good baseline. Cars with lots of variables can actually handle like shit when there are too many variables to try and control.

          The basic specs on my race car are as follows:

          M20 Engine must be stock, except can run an aftermarket chip
          Can run headers
          Brakes: Rotors and calipers must be stock.
          Brake Pad is open.
          ABS is disconnected.
          Wheels must be 14" - I run 14x7 Panasports
          We run a spec tire, the Toyo RA1. Size: 225-50-14
          Suspension is open. I run Ground Control AD. Springs are 650lb front, 900lb rear. For ride height we must run 5" of clearance between tarmac and pinch weld at the rocker.
          Car has full cage which helps stiffness.
          Car has racing seat and 5-point harnesses. I run a HANS.
          Car has fire suppression system and fuel cell.

          Are your goals to go fast in a straight line? Or in the turns? At our local track, my race car will hit around 135mph at the end of the straight, but that time is really spent checking guages and circulating past slower cars. The real fun is in the braking zone and turns. That is where (IMO) real driving skills are measured. And HP won't help you at all in those areas. In particular... the braking zone into the first third of the turn really seperates the men from the boys. Once in the turn, anyone with some training can get the car to apex and track out. It is the braking zone into the first part of the turn which really is the tough (and rewarding) part of driving.

          Have fun!
          Lance Richert '88 M3, #35 PRO3, i3 etc.
          www.LanceRichertArchitect.com

          2019 E30 Picnic Weekend: June 22-23 2019

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by SA E30 View Post
            Not sure what a R-comp is... but I've been really interested in the Bridgestone Circuit Semi's (Andreas what was their name ? ) as I noticed that they seem to have quite a nice life on them.

            I actually fell in love with circuit driving a when Andreas took me for a ride around a track in his M3 CSL, and since then, I've been planning this track car.
            The two main semi slicks used from what I see are
            Bridgestone Potenza RE55 S
            Dunlop Direzza 02G

            I am always happy to convert a drag racer to a track racer.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Lance Racing View Post
              I would say you need to define your goals, then go from there. First, my experience is driving street cars at local race tracks for about 20 years with my local BMW club, volunteer instructing with my local BMW Club for 10 years, and for the past 8 years racing a BMW in amateur road racing.

              If your goal is to work through the engineering excercises of all these upgrades, and you enjoy that kind of work, then go for it. Short and sweet answer! :-)

              If you are looking to make yourself a skillful driver, I would suggest a basic setup, then spend all that saved money on brake pads and tires (consumables) and enter a lot of driving events.

              My race car is very fast, but is built to run in a spec class. Because we don't get to upgrade the car ever after building it up to the spec, when I post a new fast lap time for myself, I know that I improved as a driver, rather than knowing that a new bolt on item made the car faster. Because I compete in amateur road racing, I'm happy to control costs by running in a spec class. I also know that if someone beats me, they did it on merit, versus just throwing better parts at their car.

              If you do all of this build out on your E30, I would suggest doing it in stages. You'll better understand how each element changes the car if you change your baseline one element at a time. Sounds like you have hung around some race teams. They should be keeping copius notes on setups so when they get back to a track, they start with a good baseline. Cars with lots of variables can actually handle like shit when there are too many variables to try and control.

              The basic specs on my race car are as follows:

              M20 Engine must be stock, except can run an aftermarket chip
              Can run headers
              Brakes: Rotors and calipers must be stock.
              Brake Pad is open.
              ABS is disconnected.
              Wheels must be 14" - I run 14x7 Panasports
              We run a spec tire, the Toyo RA1. Size: 225-50-14
              Suspension is open. I run Ground Control AD. Springs are 650lb front, 900lb rear. For ride height we must run 5" of clearance between tarmac and pinch weld at the rocker.
              Car has full cage which helps stiffness.
              Car has racing seat and 5-point harnesses. I run a HANS.
              Car has fire suppression system and fuel cell.

              Are your goals to go fast in a straight line? Or in the turns? At our local track, my race car will hit around 135mph at the end of the straight, but that time is really spent checking guages and circulating past slower cars. The real fun is in the braking zone and turns. That is where (IMO) real driving skills are measured. And HP won't help you at all in those areas. In particular... the braking zone into the first third of the turn really seperates the men from the boys. Once in the turn, anyone with some training can get the car to apex and track out. It is the braking zone into the first part of the turn which really is the tough (and rewarding) part of driving.

              Have fun!
              Thank you for ur input.

              The car I plan on building will be built in one go... but I do plan tracking my current car until the other one is done.

              Speaking of the braking zone... that is something I have taken note of, the better your brakes are the later and harder you can get onto the stoppers.

              So IMO, it is the 2nd most important thing behind suspension.

              I know what I'm doing with the motor just for the fact, that every boy racer starts with their motor 1st (as was done with my current car) , so thats where I had the most experience... so it was a logical choice for me to start with that.

              But that being said... it's the last thing I plan on putting into the car. Would rather see the suspension and brakes in the car, and happy with that before I go ahead with the motor, no point in boming it down the straight, and u can't stop or turn when u get to the corner.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Lance Racing View Post
                I would say you need to define your goals, then go from there. First, my experience is driving street cars at local race tracks for about 20 years with my local BMW club, volunteer instructing with my local BMW Club for 10 years, and for the past 8 years racing a BMW in amateur road racing.

                If your goal is to work through the engineering excercises of all these upgrades, and you enjoy that kind of work, then go for it. Short and sweet answer! :-)

                If you are looking to make yourself a skillful driver, I would suggest a basic setup, then spend all that saved money on brake pads and tires (consumables) and enter a lot of driving events.

                My race car is very fast, but is built to run in a spec class. Because we don't get to upgrade the car ever after building it up to the spec, when I post a new fast lap time for myself, I know that I improved as a driver, rather than knowing that a new bolt on item made the car faster. Because I compete in amateur road racing, I'm happy to control costs by running in a spec class. I also know that if someone beats me, they did it on merit, versus just throwing better parts at their car.

                If you do all of this build out on your E30, I would suggest doing it in stages. You'll better understand how each element changes the car if you change your baseline one element at a time. Sounds like you have hung around some race teams. They should be keeping copius notes on setups so when they get back to a track, they start with a good baseline. Cars with lots of variables can actually handle like shit when there are too many variables to try and control.

                The basic specs on my race car are as follows:

                M20 Engine must be stock, except can run an aftermarket chip
                Can run headers
                Brakes: Rotors and calipers must be stock.
                Brake Pad is open.
                ABS is disconnected.
                Wheels must be 14" - I run 14x7 Panasports
                We run a spec tire, the Toyo RA1. Size: 225-50-14
                Suspension is open. I run Ground Control AD. Springs are 650lb front, 900lb rear. For ride height we must run 5" of clearance between tarmac and pinch weld at the rocker.
                Car has full cage which helps stiffness.
                Car has racing seat and 5-point harnesses. I run a HANS.
                Car has fire suppression system and fuel cell.

                Are your goals to go fast in a straight line? Or in the turns? At our local track, my race car will hit around 135mph at the end of the straight, but that time is really spent checking guages and circulating past slower cars. The real fun is in the braking zone and turns. That is where (IMO) real driving skills are measured. And HP won't help you at all in those areas. In particular... the braking zone into the first third of the turn really seperates the men from the boys. Once in the turn, anyone with some training can get the car to apex and track out. It is the braking zone into the first part of the turn which really is the tough (and rewarding) part of driving.

                Have fun!
                Just wanted to give thumbs up on the above post!

                I am also working on setting up my first e30 (318i and maybe it was a mistake to start with ..but what's done is done) as a dedicated autox/track car (open track days , not spec e30 or anything like that) to just have fun and get more experience with fr layout and become a better driver. I've only been to about 3 or 4 open track days and about a season and a half of auto-x and it can get addicting, but also can get expensive FAST...

                Hopefully next season my e30 will be ready for autox/track use, it probably won't be competitive in csp/sm but should be rewarding and fun...i hope :)

                Question, what are your plans for the 84 318i ? :)
                Mtech1 v8 build thread - https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...d.php?t=413205



                OEM v8 manual chip or dme - https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho....php?p=4938827

                Comment


                  #23
                  For the OP:
                  If you don't have a significant amount of road course track experience I'd suggest setting your sights a bit lower intially. Find a coupe with a decent body, do a little suspension ugrading, and take the car to the track. In most cases it takes a lot of seat time for the driver to get as good as the car. And as you gain experience you'll develop a much more refined idea of what you want in a track car.
                  The car makes it possible, but the driver makes it happen.
                  Jim Levie, Huntsville, AL

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Oh... I should also let it be known... I'm a pretty decent drifter. I spent a lot of time, when my friend worked at a race track (Wesbank Raceway) messing around on the short oval, and short course track.

                    So I do have a little knowledge of car control... but that being said I dont claim to be D1 skill or anything near it.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by SA E30 View Post
                      Oh... I should also let it be known... I'm a pretty decent drifter. I spent a lot of time, when my friend worked at a race track (Wesbank Raceway) messing around on the short oval, and short course track.

                      So I do have a little knowledge of car control... but that being said I dont claim to be D1 skill or anything near it.
                      Unlike most people who prefer track racing, I do respect drifting and appreciate the skills required to pull it off well.

                      Despite your drifting experience, I would still think that you have a lot to learn through experience concerning track racing. There is no substitute for experience and if you don't have it, then you've got things to learn, doesn't matter what you do on the road.

                      However, I don't think the above should mean that you should first build up a car to a lower spec than what you ultimately want and then spend money again to upgrade - that's just a waste of money.

                      Buy the best adjustable suspension you can afford (or are willing to spend) and then set the car up to have a forgiving and communicative nature. You can then hone your track skills with this setup. Once you feel confident enough (and have a decent amount of experience - don't jump too soon) then you can fine tune the suspension for maximum handling (this will be unforgiving though ; one small mistake and you could see your arse)

                      As far as other mods are concerned (e.g. engine and brakes), I see no reason not to start off with the fully modded / upgraded items. Just like for all those M3 drivers who are nowhere near the car's potential, fear will hold you back to a level that you feel comfortable managing. It will be up to you personally to overcome that fear and move forward towards the car's limits.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Thanks Andreas.

                        What I was just saying is that, I'm not one of those ppl who have driven their cars (granny shifting and not double clutching :p hehe ) . I know a few things about car control...

                        I do realise that I have loads to learn... I actually think as good a driver as you are, there is always something to learn, that will make you quicker.

                        One thing I've been thinkin about is the brakes... I know I plan on using that pedal box... and at a later stage ITB's ... and I know Andreas isn't using a booster. What I'm worried about is that the pedal might be to hard ?

                        I've pretty much decieded on 312mm discs on the front... with E39 540i (or
                        330i calipers) calipers and the back I'm still thinkin about that... how hard would it be to convert from drums and dics setup, to dics ?

                        Another thing... seeing as the whole car is going to be in pieces. Is it worth it to replace all the bushes with Poly urethane ones ?

                        Also, been hearing things from one of our tuners here in SA, about fitting 6spd E36 3.2lt M3 gearbox to the car. Dunno what the advantages of that could be ?

                        Comment


                          #27
                          definitely go with the poly bushings since the car is apart. No need to have to take it back apart to replace worn rubber once. The poly bushes will also help in reducing flex everywhere which means you will have better handling, and, due to the stiffness of them, you will be able to hear the car better (little vibrations, bumps, creaks, rubbing, etc).
                          As far as the 6-speed gearbox. It will give you better accelleration due to more gears, but then again you will also be forced to shift more often. It's sort of a give-give situation.
                          My 2.9L Build!

                          Originally posted by Ernest Hemingway
                          There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by PiercedE30 View Post
                            As far as the 6-speed gearbox. It will give you better accelleration due to more gears, but then again you will also be forced to shift more often. It's sort of a give-give situation.
                            Wrong. Well sort of wrong. The E36 6-speeds have the same gear ratio as the E36 5 speeds, but with an overdrive 6th gear. E30's however have 1:1 4th instead of 5th and 5th is overdrive. I guess mating it to an M20 would help some but you'd probably be changing the diff ration anyways, so its like going to a double overdrive tranny.

                            RISING EDGE

                            Let's drive fast and have fun.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              I'm not going to get too deep into this thread, but I will definitely recommend against the Alpina Kopis. They are soft, heavy, and generally just very cheap. If you going "balls-out" (it seems like you are reading your list) get some real wheels that will be better for your application. I'd recommend 17x8 with 235/40 or 16x7.5/8 with 225/45 if you going with bigger brakes.
                              '91 318is
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Digitalwave View Post
                                Wrong. Well sort of wrong. The E36 6-speeds have the same gear ratio as the E36 5 speeds, but with an overdrive 6th gear. E30's however have 1:1 4th instead of 5th and 5th is overdrive. I guess mating it to an M20 would help some but you'd probably be changing the diff ration anyways, so its like going to a double overdrive tranny.
                                My bad, didn't know he was going to mate the 6 speed to an M20.
                                My 2.9L Build!

                                Originally posted by Ernest Hemingway
                                There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.

                                Comment

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