275 35 15 Hoosier...yep, that's right....

[matt]

OK, well, maybe that's true maybe it isn't. Wide tires are fine when they're called for. My problem is that the prevailing attitude on this forum is that wider is better no matter what. This is not true.

In a BFC thread one of the guys with an e30 with huge tires admited that he picked his tires by finding the widest ones that were still short enough that his gearing didn't go to hell. That's the WRONG way to choose a tire. Gearing should be considered, but the width of the tire should depend on heat management. Too hot, go up a size. Too cold, go down. Of course there are other ways to manage heat in a tire also, but all the tricks in the world won't get a tire that's grossly oversized up to temp under a car that can't use all that tire.

This same guy also admitted that his tires didn't get up to temp but he thought they were still better than a narrower tire that did warm up. Honestly, I was surprised he measured his tire temps at all.

[joshh]

OK, well, maybe that's true maybe it isn't. Wide tires are fine when they're called for. My problem is that the prevailing attitude on this forum is that wider is better no matter what. This is not true.

In a BFC thread one of the guys with an e30 with huge tires admited that he picked his tires by finding the widest ones that were still short enough that his gearing didn't go to hell. That's the WRONG way to choose a tire. Gearing should be considered, but the width of the tire should depend on heat management. Too hot, go up a size. Too cold, go down. Of course there are other ways to manage heat in a tire also, but all the tricks in the world won't get a tire that's grossly oversized up to temp under a car that can't use all that tire.

This same guy also admitted that his tires didn't get up to temp but he thought they were still better than a narrower tire that did warm up. Honestly, I was surprised he measured his tire temps at all.

You're not incorrect. Is the tire getting warmed up the a key issue. With the 285 30 18's they were for autocrossing. Now that the new serface they are using is a bit slick things might be different. But with autocrossing there are so many corners the tires have a pretty good chance to heat up. And with an autocross compound it's a whole other ball game than road racing.

[rsafier]

You're not incorrect. Is the tire getting warmed up the a key issue. With the 285 30 18's they were for autocrossing. Now that the new serface they are using is a bit slick things might be different. But with autocrossing there are so many corners the tires have a pretty good chance to heat up. And with an autocross compound it's a whole other ball game than road racing.

Correct wider will not help if you can't get enough heat in them. I had 315s all around on my C4 Vette autoX car, went I switched to Hoosiers I couldn't heat them at all compared to Kumhos and lost out bigtime.

Still in general wide as you can fit for autocross is the best setup assuming you can find a tire you can warm up. Sometimes you will see people with hot air blowers for while they are in grid to prewarm the tires if they know they can't achieve the needed heat to do it out on course.

With my SM 325i Turbo car I will be running 285/30/18s as I got a good deal on a used tire/wheel combo. If I had to build a set of wheels those new Hoosiers would be quite a good option. Probably cheaper and also quite a bit closer to stock tire size. 18s are near 2" taller, gear you up over 5% and require a lot more hacking of your fenders to fit.

[E30 Racer]

OK, well, maybe that's true maybe it isn't. Wide tires are fine when they're called for. My problem is that the prevailing attitude on this forum is that wider is better no matter what. This is not true.

I don't think that's what *this* thread is about. We're taking about race tires used in competition, not pimping around your high school parking lot.

In that context, addressing autox specifically, why do you continue to deny the findings of people actually willing to commit the time and resourses (including multiple national champions) to directly answering the question with objective data?

Do *you* have any direct experience to confirm or dispute your opinions? Have you actually taken a properly prepared car to a test session? You you even autocross?

[matt]

I don't think that's what *this* thread is about. We're taking about race tires used in competition, not pimping around your high school parking lot.

In that context, addressing autox specifically, why do you continue to deny the findings of people actually willing to commit the time and resourses (including multiple national champions) to directly answering the question with objective data?

Do *you* have any direct experience to confirm or dispute your opinions? Have you actually taken a properly prepared car to a test session? You you even autocross?

I haven't seen any objective data. From you or anyone else. I stopped watching that BFC thread after you said your tires didnt get up to temp.

And as for me, I don't even drive... I just like arguing on the internet. :rolleyes

I don't think Ive ever seen, let alone driven, a properly set up car. I've autocrossed plenty, and with enough other e30s, to know that tire compound is much more important than size, and that the driver is more important than anything else.

[joshh]

I'm running 215 50 13's right now on my Integra. Half way through the first run these tires are warm (no I'm not kidding). After the first run (45 second course) the tires are ready to go. Half way through the second run the tire is over heated. I have to cool the tire with water for the next run.
Basicly the car could easily use a wider tire and still get it up to temp.
Hoosiers and 710's are very very different tires as well. Although I haven't tried the newer A6.

Just randomly saying this is way too much tire is jumping the gun. Remember this tire is only 22.9". That's 1.5" shorter than the 285 30 18 and is a bit skinnier as well. In other words it will heat up faster.

[matt]

So?

Specific examples mean nothing without a hell of a lot more data than that. Tire compound and pressure are both more important to grip (and to a certain extent, temp) than size. Driving style and skill have even more to do with it. What were ambient temps? Even the word "overheat" means nothing without a pyrometer to put numbers to it.

I autocrossed an e30 with 220hp on 195 falkens and they barely warmed up in 3 consective runs. So what? It was 30 degrees out, the car is grossly undersprung and I was driving like a granny.

Maybe I did jump the gun with the first post. My point has been made... if the average idiot on this forum puts these tires on their e30 thinking it will make them the autox hero of the world, its their own damn fault when the tires dont help.

[joshh]

So?

Specific examples mean nothing without a hell of a lot more data than that. Tire compound and pressure are both more important to grip (and to a certain extent, temp) than size. Driving style and skill have even more to do with it. What were ambient temps? Even the word "overheat" means nothing without a pyrometer to put numbers to it.

I autocrossed an e30 with 220hp on 195 falkens and they barely warmed up in 3 consective runs. So what? It was 30 degrees out, the car is grossly undersprung and I was driving like a granny.

Maybe I did jump the gun with the first post. My point has been made... if the average idiot on this forum puts these tires on their e30 thinking it will make them the autox hero of the world, its their own damn fault when the tires dont help.

"So"....lol.
It's very apparent you have never driven on r compound autocross tire. A street tire is absolutely NOTHING like a real autocross tire.
You throw my example away as if I'm actually going to listen to you yet you fail to realise I've just told you that I need a much wider tire than a 215. That "specific" example" is from experiance. If you're trying to say that I don't know if my tire is over heating because I haven't used a pyrometer on it, that's just silly.
Any person that runs a specific tire knows when it over heats....you don't need a pyrometer to tell you your tires are over heating. And the pyrometer is the wrong tool for tire temps anyways.
The average person wont be strapping these tires on because you need a custom wheel for them and flared fenders.

[Charlie]

So?

Specific examples mean nothing without a hell of a lot more data than that. Tire compound and pressure are both more important to grip (and to a certain extent, temp) than size. Driving style and skill have even more to do with it. What were ambient temps? Even the word "overheat" means nothing without a pyrometer to put numbers to it.

I autocrossed an e30 with 220hp on 195 falkens and they barely warmed up in 3 consective runs. So what? It was 30 degrees out, the car is grossly undersprung and I was driving like a granny.

Maybe I did jump the gun with the first post. My point has been made... if the average idiot on this forum puts these tires on their e30 thinking it will make them the autox hero of the world, its their own damn fault when the tires dont help.

Dude, didn't you get burned badly enough on Bimmerforums when you tried this same lame "I'm a freshman engineering major that's done a season of autox on street tires that didn't get hot enough, so big tires can't get hot either" argument?

The Hoosier A6s and Khumo 710s are gumballs, they have no problem getting up to temperature, it's the nature of the tread compound, these are made for autocross.

E30s are running 285 width autox rubber with excellent results, so I doubt you'll see problems with the 275s. It will be wild to see who the first one will be to flip a CSP prepped meotter though on these things.

-Charlie

[joshh]

E30s are running 285 width autox rubber with excellent results, so I doubt you'll see problems with the 275s. It will be wild to see who the first one will be to flip a CSP prepped meotter though on these things.

-Charlie

Oh F&*%$ YEAH!!! Can't wait to see if these tires mess the class champs up bad. But the CSP cars are running as good of times as the BSP cars. The top CSP car was only 3/10th behind the top BSP car and the Miata would have placed second in BSP had the Miata been in BSP.

[rwh11385]

Educate yourself with experience. Why did Alex Shchipkov do so well with 305s and 18 x 10.5" wheels?

Will

Because he is a good driver? And only saw mariginal gains from the 18s compared to the 17s?? *shrug*

The only reason people keep going wider is because the tire keeps getting stickier. If Alex ran an R1 from several years ago in the same width as the AS06, it might not get the heat necessary into it - and a narrower tire in old tech may have been better. Since these new tires go like waxed snot, they get away with being so damn wide, but there is a point where it will only have mariginal gains - or maybe too big for its own good.

In order to slip, one must study how in fact to grip. The great buddha of drifting said so...

but maybe I smoke rocks.

[joshh]

Because he is a good driver? And only saw mariginal gains from the 18s compared to the 17s?? *shrug*

The only reason people keep going wider is because the tire keeps getting stickier. If Alex ran an R1 from several years ago in the same width as the AS06, it might not get the heat necessary into it - and a narrower tire in old tech may have been better. Since these new tires go like waxed snot, they get away with being so damn wide, but there is a point where it will only have mariginal gains - or maybe too big for its own good.

In order to slip, one must study how in fact to grip. The great buddha of drifting said so...

but maybe I smoke rocks.

He went from an 18 to an 18. Although the 305's didn't help in making him a champ last year.
I'm sure there is a point but a 285 is only 30mm skinnier than the widest commercial tire made. It's not just the driver or these guys wouldn't be running these tires.

Drifito simply needs consistant tires.

[E30 Racer]

Guys, you really need to stop commenting on things you know nothing about. Alex has never used a 305 width tire.

[joshh]

I have no idea what size he used last year, I'm just commenting on the fact of the matter not what size he used or didn't use.

[Jean]

Little of topic. Someone mentioned that E30 M3's run in CSP...Alex runs a 4door e30, but it's not an m3 IIRC...so what gives ?