Alright so here is the latest update from the Gates Representative, basically answered most of you guys question regarding service interval and any other questions you may have had and a bit more info regarding Contitech Belts not being the OE supplier to BMW etc..
"Hey Jared,
Been reading your forum thread. I’m glad the guys out there are interested. I did see this one quote from one of the posters regarding the service interval of the belt and I wanted to comment:
“sometimes (usually) you don't get the same % increase in longevity as you do with % increase in static strength. “
This is pretty much the best way to look at it. The racing belt will be stronger than the OE belt by an OBSCENE amount. The original OE belt construction called for a high temp version of standard Neoprene rubber, something that was probably considered cutting edge in the early 80s when the belt was initially going into production but today it falls woefully short of modern expectations. This is something I try to stress to people when they are considering an aftermarket vs. OE belt. In the aftermarket we are not limited by the OE recipe, so to speak. We use it as a starting point, but if a better construction method or materials come along, then we can make changes to the product line that reflect that. Buying the OE timing belt just means you’re buying 1980s chemistry, but this is the 21st century. Also, incidentally, Gates was OE on this belt out of our plant in Aachen, not Contitech. Conti gets a lot of credit for being OE on European applications that are actually Gates OE projects. I guess because they are a European brand so people assume they are OE on everything European?
But I’m digressing, so let me get back to the point. The racing belt we will make is going to be a whole heap stronger than the OE belt. Better rubber, better cure process, better tensile cord, Kevlar reinforcement, the works. Static strength will be much increased. Even longevity should be increased, but that’s where I have to qualify my statement. Because this is not the OE belt, and we assume you guys are putting this belt on vehicles that have been modified, it is nearly impossible for me to give you a standard replacement interval. There are too many variables: modifications, different engine outputs, different uses/driving habits. Obviously a guy who leaves the car nearly stock and drives to church on Sunday is going to see more belt life than a guy who puts a huge blower on the engine, maybe a squirt of nitrous, a flux capacitor, a warp drive, etc etc.
Long story short, I like to say that the racing belt should last the normal OE replacement interval even after you modify the vehicle. Can it and will it go longer? Sure, its possible. But I can’t promise you something like that for the usual corporate liability reasons.
Another thing to consider is that the Gates racing belts are optimized for strength and durability in high horsepower and high torque applications. They are not optimized for other types of performance. So, if you put a racing belt on your vehicle and then you notice some timing belt noise, that is a compromise you might have to accept. We have heard complaints from some Audi/VW folks. An enthusiast will install one of our racing belts and then say that they get timing belt noise for the first 10 minutes until the drive gets up to temp. I remind these guys when I come into contact with them that the OE belt is optimized for all types of performance: power delivery, belt life, NVH control, cost, etc. When you buy a Gates racing product, you are buying something that is different from the OE construction and in some cases you will be sacrificing some of those optimized characteristics (most often NVH control and lower cost). Usually folks in the performance community understand this, but I just wanted to be above board. I’d say most of the time that noise complaints aren’t an issue, cost though…well…its usually higher. Sorry about that.
Also the “belt specs” I was referring to in my earlier email don’t refer to performance metrics, but the boring engineer type stuff like pitch length differential, cord winding tension, and all of the other things we have to dial in to make sure that the different materials we are using don’t result in a belt that is not compatible with your drive. The basic performance metrics you’ve seen before in reference to Gates racing timing belts will still apply. Your mileage may vary based on what else you do to the vehicle, but I’d love to hear any feedback once we get the belt out to you.
I’ll follow up with my engineer today and see where we are on creating a spec sheet and I’ll keep in touch when I have updates. Thanks again for contacting us."
"Hey Jared,
Been reading your forum thread. I’m glad the guys out there are interested. I did see this one quote from one of the posters regarding the service interval of the belt and I wanted to comment:
“sometimes (usually) you don't get the same % increase in longevity as you do with % increase in static strength. “
This is pretty much the best way to look at it. The racing belt will be stronger than the OE belt by an OBSCENE amount. The original OE belt construction called for a high temp version of standard Neoprene rubber, something that was probably considered cutting edge in the early 80s when the belt was initially going into production but today it falls woefully short of modern expectations. This is something I try to stress to people when they are considering an aftermarket vs. OE belt. In the aftermarket we are not limited by the OE recipe, so to speak. We use it as a starting point, but if a better construction method or materials come along, then we can make changes to the product line that reflect that. Buying the OE timing belt just means you’re buying 1980s chemistry, but this is the 21st century. Also, incidentally, Gates was OE on this belt out of our plant in Aachen, not Contitech. Conti gets a lot of credit for being OE on European applications that are actually Gates OE projects. I guess because they are a European brand so people assume they are OE on everything European?
But I’m digressing, so let me get back to the point. The racing belt we will make is going to be a whole heap stronger than the OE belt. Better rubber, better cure process, better tensile cord, Kevlar reinforcement, the works. Static strength will be much increased. Even longevity should be increased, but that’s where I have to qualify my statement. Because this is not the OE belt, and we assume you guys are putting this belt on vehicles that have been modified, it is nearly impossible for me to give you a standard replacement interval. There are too many variables: modifications, different engine outputs, different uses/driving habits. Obviously a guy who leaves the car nearly stock and drives to church on Sunday is going to see more belt life than a guy who puts a huge blower on the engine, maybe a squirt of nitrous, a flux capacitor, a warp drive, etc etc.
Long story short, I like to say that the racing belt should last the normal OE replacement interval even after you modify the vehicle. Can it and will it go longer? Sure, its possible. But I can’t promise you something like that for the usual corporate liability reasons.
Another thing to consider is that the Gates racing belts are optimized for strength and durability in high horsepower and high torque applications. They are not optimized for other types of performance. So, if you put a racing belt on your vehicle and then you notice some timing belt noise, that is a compromise you might have to accept. We have heard complaints from some Audi/VW folks. An enthusiast will install one of our racing belts and then say that they get timing belt noise for the first 10 minutes until the drive gets up to temp. I remind these guys when I come into contact with them that the OE belt is optimized for all types of performance: power delivery, belt life, NVH control, cost, etc. When you buy a Gates racing product, you are buying something that is different from the OE construction and in some cases you will be sacrificing some of those optimized characteristics (most often NVH control and lower cost). Usually folks in the performance community understand this, but I just wanted to be above board. I’d say most of the time that noise complaints aren’t an issue, cost though…well…its usually higher. Sorry about that.
Also the “belt specs” I was referring to in my earlier email don’t refer to performance metrics, but the boring engineer type stuff like pitch length differential, cord winding tension, and all of the other things we have to dial in to make sure that the different materials we are using don’t result in a belt that is not compatible with your drive. The basic performance metrics you’ve seen before in reference to Gates racing timing belts will still apply. Your mileage may vary based on what else you do to the vehicle, but I’d love to hear any feedback once we get the belt out to you.
I’ll follow up with my engineer today and see where we are on creating a spec sheet and I’ll keep in touch when I have updates. Thanks again for contacting us."
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