Saving the rear hot into a turn...

[e9nine]

Is there any other way to save your rear end from swinging out when you're hot in a turn? I have experienced this a few times and tried 2 different ways...

Method one: Ease off throttle or slight braking = Oversteer :o very easy to lose the rear :shock:

Method two: With foot still on the gas and the car travelling in the ideal line.....I left foot brake ever so lightly while feathering off the gas (Mind you this is not for those who don't left foot brake or have never tried to do so before!!!!.... less dramatic oversteer but more controllable and there's no clenching of orifices ;)

Needless to say method two is the optimal one for me but I am curious if there is another way out :?:

Bear in mind these turns were not hit deliberately with high speeds and these question are more with "evasive" and "last minute" maneuvers in mind... Even when doing slow in fast out...there is the inevitable that pops up every now and then..

TIA

[TIATO]

The best way to save it in a hot turn is to not get into that situation in the first place. Always know your and your cars limits. Know how to take turns properly. Be aware of your driving environment.

That said, method one is workable, but not with an abrupt lift or tap of the brakes as it could worsen your situation. An abrupt motion will only hasten the further unsettling of the rear by transfering weight forward fast. Coming of the throttle slowly and smoothly will reduce your speed, but be prepared to catch the car by steering into the cars rotation.

I would never under any circumstances go for method 2. Too complicated of a thing to try to pull off in a fraction of a second while you are commited. Chances are you will overcorrect and make things worse. If you take a turn and are prepared to do that from the beginning, then thats a different story, but to save it, wrong thing to do.

Ideally in the situation you describe you would have to apply throttle to transfer weight to the back of the car to make it settle down. But even that seems unnatural because when you are going too fast and are losing it, your brain wants to slow down.

This brings me to how to take turns properly. Heres what Ive tought novice drivers of short wheelbase high HP cars.

Brake in a straight line, When you begin your turn in (and at a comfortable cornering speed), move your foot from the brake to the gas pedal, firmly and smoothly press down on the accelerator (to transfer weight to the back to plant the rear) so that shortly before you apex you are at 90-100% throttle (or whatever you are comfortable with, legally on the road), then as you unwind the wheel, let the momentum track you out.

In a nutshell - slow in fast out. Never lift in a turn.

Every aspect of cornering should be done with pre-determined, calculated purpose.

That said, I regularly tear up Hunterdon countys roads in a variety or vehicles (Honda Odyssey, e36 328, the 318), figuring turns out, always expanding my experience database, comparing them to turns at the track, mentally noting what my car is doing.

[trent]

Re: Saving the rear hot into a turn...

Method one: Ease off throttle or slight braking = Oversteer :o very easy to lose the rear :shock:

Method two: With foot still on the gas and the car travelling in the ideal line.....I left foot brake ever so lightly while feathering off the gas (Mind you this is not for those who don't left foot brake or have never tried to do so before!!!!.... less dramatic oversteer but more controllable and there's no clenching of orifices ;)

Well, I think you basically described what to NEVER do in a turn PERIOD.

--cut and paste what TIATO said here for my remarks--

[e9nine]

Re: Saving the rear hot into a turn...

Well, I think you basically described what to NEVER do in a turn PERIOD.

--cut and paste what TIATO said here for my remarks--

Bear in mind these turns were not hit deliberately with high speeds and these question are more with "evasive" and "last minute" maneuvers in mind...

I appreciate the tips guys :) ... however I am not saying I do this all the time but I am talking of when you encounter the stalled car on the exit ramp @ 6am (yes that's when I go try some stuff) or see that racoon or deer ;) so please don't assume it's the norm

[DBurke]

Re: Saving the rear hot into a turn...

Well, I think you basically described what to NEVER do in a turn PERIOD.

--cut and paste what TIATO said here for my remarks--

Bear in mind these turns were not hit deliberately with high speeds and these question are more with "evasive" and "last minute" maneuvers in mind...

I appreciate the tips guys :) ... however I am not saying I do this all the time but I am talking of when you encounter the stalled car on the exit ramp @ 6am (yes that's when I go try some stuff) or see that racoon or deer ;) so please don't assume it's the norm

Lord be with you. :roll:

[e9nine]

thx for the kind words... :D

[e30rapidic]

I go fast and turn left pretty much every weekend. :twisted: If the rear end breaks loose just a little, i'll ease a few degrees off the steering and ride the slide out. If it's a bit more severe, I'll tap the brake with my left foot to set the car. Just don't abruptly let off the gas, otherwise you'll load up your suspension and cause snap oversteer in the other direction.

Just make sure you are in the correct gear to give you enough power to help throttle steer.

[TIATO]

Re: Saving the rear hot into a turn...

I appreciate the tips guys :) ... however I am not saying I do this all the time but I am talking of when you encounter the stalled car on the exit ramp @ 6am (yes that's when I go try some stuff) or see that racoon or deer ;) so please don't assume it's the norm

No need to explain, never thought that that was your norm. We ALL do interesting things sometime.

[Stu]

Mario you are the man.

[M-technik-3]

Cheaper to hit the racoon than wreck the ride all together than crossing center line and hitting something else.

[EVOIIIM3]

Ok,
Rule #1, NEVER LIFT IN A TURN!! NEVER

Rule #2. NEVER BREAK IN A TURN unless you are trail braking to rotate the car.

You do your braking before the turn, turn in, then on gas.

If you are doing other things, you should go to a Rally school to learn left foot braking.

Do you even know what you are doing when you do this?

You are shifting the weight of the car from the rear tires pushing the car, to the front tires, making the front heavy, this lets the ass end come loose.

[e9nine]

Bear in mind these turns were not hit deliberately with high speeds and these question are more with "evasive" and "last minute" maneuvers in mind... Even when doing slow in fast out...there is the inevitable that pops up every now and then..

Ok,
Rule #1, NEVER LIFT IN A TURN!! NEVER

Rule #2. NEVER BREAK IN A TURN unless you are trail braking to rotate the car.

You do your braking before the turn, turn in, then on gas.

If you are doing other things, you should go to a Rally school to learn left foot braking.

Do you even know what you are doing when you do this?

You are shifting the weight of the car from the rear tires pushing the car, to the front tires, making the front heavy, this lets the ass end come loose.

I merely wanted to hear what else you guys had to say...

Why do you suggest Rally school for left foot braking?
Some tactics are dependent on the driver, at one of the local auto-xs some guy with an e30 M3 left foot braked a lot. I asked him when I had him drive my car what he had to say to other's about it, he said it's up to you the driver and your driving style. I am not asking everyone to do as I say, this was merely an info gathering session not me saying to lift off in turns, transfer weight wrestle with oversteer then come blaming me...it was only a question about last minute evasive moves...

[Rob]

slow in,fast out.

Why do you suggest Rally school for left foot braking? .

because in rallying, part of the idea is to take some turns sideways.....

[e9nine]

because in rallying, part of the idea is to take some turns sideways.....

argh... I know... fwd & awd drivers also use LFB, they didn't go to rally school to learn... I give up :evil: :drink:

[Rob]

well left foot braking has a lot of uses, but it just takes practice. For example, a lot of the Porsche Turbo guys (my roommate has a 951) left foot brake so they can still keep the throttle open and stay on boost for better acceloration coming out of turns.