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    Viscous coupling welded to planetary gear

    Hey guys,

    I got a question, so my uncle also has a 325ix touring and his viscous coupling is shot. He did get an other one some time ago but we didn't have time then to fit it.
    Today we had a look to test it out of the car like flyboyx stated here on the forum. Turned out we could not feel any fluid resistance, in fact we could not get the thing to spin! It's like someone welded it tight like you would do with a diff.

    He called the guy where he bought it from but turns out he doesn't know much about the iX and he bought a lot of parts which included this T-case.

    Being that I was eager to find out what was wrong I started with disassembling the damn thing. Only to discover that the viscous coupling was welded to the planetary ring gear. Has someone ever seen this before? Why would one weld the VC to the gear? Because of the welding the planetary ring gear is also warped.







    My second questions is, could we try and save the VC as it's not discolored. Obviously it had some heat put into it because of the welding. I'm thinking to grind the welds off (some of them are cracked) and testing the VC again out of the car. Would only be a small job anyway. We could use his old/original T-case and use all the good parts and make 1 good out of 2 bad ones.
    Some input on this?

    Would appreciate it, thanks!
    1990 325iX Touring - November 2018 R3V Car Of The Month

    1980 Volkswagen Golf mk1 1.1
    1974 BMW 2002 Touring

    Instagram

    #2
    Originally posted by D.Martijn View Post
    Hey guys,

    I got a question, so my uncle also has a 325ix touring and his viscous coupling is shot. He did get an other one some time ago but we didn't have time then to fit it.
    Today we had a look to test it out of the car like flyboyx stated here on the forum. Turned out we could not feel any fluid resistance, in fact we could not get the thing to spin! It's like someone welded it tight like you would do with a diff.

    He called the guy where he bought it from but turns out he doesn't know much about the iX and he bought a lot of parts which included this T-case.

    Being that I was eager to find out what was wrong I started with disassembling the damn thing. Only to discover that the viscous coupling was welded to the planetary ring gear. Has someone ever seen this before? Why would one weld the VC to the gear? Because of the welding the planetary ring gear is also warped.







    My second questions is, could we try and save the VC as it's not discolored. Obviously it had some heat put into it because of the welding. I'm thinking to grind the welds off (some of them are cracked) and testing the VC again out of the car. Would only be a small job anyway. We could use his old/original T-case and use all the good parts and make 1 good out of 2 bad ones.
    Some input on this?

    Would appreciate it, thanks!
    Test the VC first before going to all that effort, only reason I can think they did this is its already bad.

    Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk
    Angus
    88 E30M3 X2
    89 325IX
    92 R100GS/PD
    :)

    Comment


      #3
      Were they trying to create a welded diff for the transfercase? Would that even work? Wouldn't that break things unless the car was going in a straight line?
      AWD > RWD

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Kershaw View Post
        Were they trying to create a welded diff for the transfercase? Would that even work? Wouldn't that break things unless the car was going in a straight line?
        Would definately increase stress/wear on drivetrain
        Need to dig out my spare tcase and figured out what they are doing here

        Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk
        Angus
        88 E30M3 X2
        89 325IX
        92 R100GS/PD
        :)

        Comment


          #5
          yup thats what they have done is locked it up taking the VC and planetary gear set out of contention ,that's going to be hard on driveshafts and chain . pretty much assume that VC is bad. and TC wont last long
          Angus
          88 E30M3 X2
          89 325IX
          92 R100GS/PD
          :)

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by spdracrm3 View Post
            Test the VC first before going to all that effort, only reason I can think they did this is its already bad.

            Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk
            Yes, I was thinking the same. Although the guy he bought it from does a lot of auto cross/dirt racing so maybe that's why? I'm not sure.
            Of course I would first test it on the bench with it's old housing and parts.

            Originally posted by Kershaw View Post
            Were they trying to create a welded diff for the transfercase? Would that even work? Wouldn't that break things unless the car was going in a straight line?
            That's also what I was thinking.

            Originally posted by spdracrm3 View Post
            Would definately increase stress/wear on drivetrain
            Need to dig out my spare tcase and figured out what they are doing here

            Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk
            Originally posted by spdracrm3 View Post
            yup thats what they have done is locked it up taking the VC and planetary gear set out of contention ,that's going to be hard on driveshafts and chain . pretty much assume that VC is bad. and TC wont last long
            Ok, thanks for the input!
            1990 325iX Touring - November 2018 R3V Car Of The Month

            1980 Volkswagen Golf mk1 1.1
            1974 BMW 2002 Touring

            Instagram

            Comment


              #7
              Took the oppertunity yesterday so cut the welds and removed the coupling


              The big snap ring is welded to the planetary gear ring so I couldn't remove it


              There is some black residue/substance on the back side of the coupling though


              Decided to clean the welds some more, I'll now reassemble to whole TC and do a bench test to determine the condition of the VC.
              1990 325iX Touring - November 2018 R3V Car Of The Month

              1980 Volkswagen Golf mk1 1.1
              1974 BMW 2002 Touring

              Instagram

              Comment


                #8
                Does the VC work?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post
                  Does the VC work?
                  Haven't tested it yet, will do this weekend
                  1990 325iX Touring - November 2018 R3V Car Of The Month

                  1980 Volkswagen Golf mk1 1.1
                  1974 BMW 2002 Touring

                  Instagram

                  Comment


                    #10
                    judging by your photo, that black residue is silicone fluid from the inside of the coupling. my guess is that it is bad. even if it seems to test good, i wouldn't use it if i were you.

                    good god! i just can't imagine how someone thought this was an acceptable repair?

                    now that you have the 2 pieces cut apart, you can probably hold the viscus coupling in a vise, put the planetary shaft back in and try to turn the inside of your coupling that way. you can use your hands or a strap wrench to spin the planetary shaft. if you don't have a vice that big, have a friend hold the vc while you hold the planetary. simply try to spin them against each other by hand.

                    if the coupling is by some miracle holding fluid, it should be very difficult or impossible to turn the inside of the coupling this way.
                    Last edited by flyboyx; 12-07-2017, 10:17 AM.
                    sigpic
                    Gigitty Gigitty!!!!

                    88 cabrio becoming alpina b6 3.5s transplanted s62
                    92 Mtech 2 cabrio alpinweiss 770 code
                    88 325ix coupe manual lachsilber/cardinal
                    88 325ix coupe manual diamondschwartz/natur
                    87 e30 m3 for parts lachsilber/cardinal(serial number 7)
                    12 135i M sport cabrio grey/black

                    Comment


                      #11
                      a long time ago, myself and others have posted threads about rebuilding viscous couplings. i can't remember if it was here or e30tech. perhaps one of you reading this can do a search for it? i'm pretty sure my photos will be long gone.

                      assuming it is bad, you can cut one of the weld lines on a lathe to open it up. i would cut the one on the thick heavy side you have facing up in your photo above. check the plates inside for warpage. if you have another vc, you might cut that one open to see if you can make a complete set of un warped plates out of two.

                      the seals are available from mcmastercar. the fluid is supposed to be a mixture of 60,000 and 100,000 to give you around 80,000. i can't remember the units though i think its something like "cst".

                      i would just buy 100,000 fluid. seems like you can buy it by the quart or liter. refill the coupling to about 70% and carefully weld it back together. you will need to find a way to weld it without overheating your new seals. the upper end of the temp range for the rubber is iirc around 200 degrees F.
                      Last edited by flyboyx; 12-07-2017, 11:02 AM.
                      sigpic
                      Gigitty Gigitty!!!!

                      88 cabrio becoming alpina b6 3.5s transplanted s62
                      92 Mtech 2 cabrio alpinweiss 770 code
                      88 325ix coupe manual lachsilber/cardinal
                      88 325ix coupe manual diamondschwartz/natur
                      87 e30 m3 for parts lachsilber/cardinal(serial number 7)
                      12 135i M sport cabrio grey/black

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by flyboyx View Post
                        a long time ago, myself and others have posted threads about rebuilding viscous couplings. i can't remember if it was here or e30tech. perhaps one of you reading this can do a search for it? i'm pretty sure my photos will be long gone.

                        assuming it is bad, you can cut one of the weld lines on a lathe to open it up. i would cut the one on the thick heavy side you have facing up in your photo above. check the plates inside for warpage. if you have another vc, you might cut that one open to see if you can make a complete set of un warped plates out of two.

                        the seals are available from mcmastercar. the fluid is supposed to be a mixture of 60,000 and 100,000 to give you around 80,000. i can't remember the units though i think its something like "cst".

                        i would just buy 100,000 fluid. seems like you can buy it by the quart or liter. refill the coupling to about 70% and carefully weld it back together. you will need to find a way to weld it without overheating your new seals. the upper end of the temp range for the rubber is iirc around 200 degrees F.
                        Posts are still available for viewing in E30tech IX section .

                        Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk
                        Angus
                        88 E30M3 X2
                        89 325IX
                        92 R100GS/PD
                        :)

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by spdracrm3 View Post
                          Posts are still available for viewing in E30tech IX section . Also plates can be straightened in a press as long as costing isnt worn completely off

                          Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk


                          Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk
                          Angus
                          88 E30M3 X2
                          89 325IX
                          92 R100GS/PD
                          :)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by flyboyx View Post
                            a long time ago, myself and others have posted threads about rebuilding viscous couplings. i can't remember if it was here or e30tech. perhaps one of you reading this can do a search for it? i'm pretty sure my photos will be long gone.

                            assuming it is bad, you can cut one of the weld lines on a lathe to open it up. i would cut the one on the thick heavy side you have facing up in your photo above. check the plates inside for warpage. if you have another vc, you might cut that one open to see if you can make a complete set of un warped plates out of two.

                            the seals are available from mcmastercar. the fluid is supposed to be a mixture of 60,000 and 100,000 to give you around 80,000. i can't remember the units though i think its something like "cst".

                            i would just buy 100,000 fluid. seems like you can buy it by the quart or liter. refill the coupling to about 70% and carefully weld it back together. you will need to find a way to weld it without overheating your new seals. the upper end of the temp range for the rubber is iirc around 200 degrees F.
                            Hell, there's at least one VC rebuild thread right here on R3V: https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...d.php?t=406859

                            ETA:
                            Originally posted by flyboyx View Post
                            judging by your photo, that black residue is silicone fluid from the inside of the coupling.
                            Yeah, that was my take on that photo as well. Looks like something coming out of the seal and tracking toward the perimeter of the VC due to centrifugal force.
                            Last edited by The Dark Side of Will; 12-07-2017, 04:49 PM.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by flyboyx View Post
                              judging by your photo, that black residue is silicone fluid from the inside of the coupling. my guess is that it is bad. even if it seems to test good, i wouldn't use it if i were you.

                              good god! i just can't imagine how someone thought this was an acceptable repair?

                              now that you have the 2 pieces cut apart, you can probably hold the viscus coupling in a vise, put the planetary shaft back in and try to turn the inside of your coupling that way. you can use your hands or a strap wrench to spin the planetary shaft. if you don't have a vice that big, have a friend hold the vc while you hold the planetary. simply try to spin them against each other by hand.

                              if the coupling is by some miracle holding fluid, it should be very difficult or impossible to turn the inside of the coupling this way.
                              I was thinking the same, I would prefer to get an other T case but not sure what my uncle will decide. Still don't know why one would do this lol.

                              Thanks for the input, I'll try it first your way, if it checks out good I'll do a bench test with it fully assembled in the TC

                              Originally posted by flyboyx View Post
                              a long time ago, myself and others have posted threads about rebuilding viscous couplings. i can't remember if it was here or e30tech. perhaps one of you reading this can do a search for it? i'm pretty sure my photos will be long gone.

                              assuming it is bad, you can cut one of the weld lines on a lathe to open it up. i would cut the one on the thick heavy side you have facing up in your photo above. check the plates inside for warpage. if you have another vc, you might cut that one open to see if you can make a complete set of un warped plates out of two.

                              the seals are available from mcmastercar. the fluid is supposed to be a mixture of 60,000 and 100,000 to give you around 80,000. i can't remember the units though i think its something like "cst".

                              i would just buy 100,000 fluid. seems like you can buy it by the quart or liter. refill the coupling to about 70% and carefully weld it back together. you will need to find a way to weld it without overheating your new seals. the upper end of the temp range for the rubber is iirc around 200 degrees F.
                              I've seen the threads on r3v about the rebuild, I've been thinking about doing that/trying at least with one of the VCs..

                              Originally posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post
                              Hell, there's at least one VC rebuild thread right here on R3V: https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...d.php?t=406859

                              ETA:


                              Yeah, that was my take on that photo as well. Looks like something coming out of the seal and tracking toward the perimeter of the VC due to centrifugal force.
                              I know, although the oring isn't completely blown apart like pictures I've seen online.. We'll see
                              1990 325iX Touring - November 2018 R3V Car Of The Month

                              1980 Volkswagen Golf mk1 1.1
                              1974 BMW 2002 Touring

                              Instagram

                              Comment

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