E36 5 lug swap WITH DETAILS!!!

[nando]

are you using solid CA mounts? if not, you could get the offset bushings and instal them backwards, that would reduce your caster a bit.

[E30-323ti]

are you using solid CA mounts? if not, you could get the offset bushings and instal them backwards, that would reduce your caster a bit.

Except that would move the wheel back further!!

I have camber/castor strut tops and castor is ~9d
I would have spaced out the lower shock mount also to get more camber but there isn't much room with 245's & Coilovers, just out of curiousity, how thick are the spacers/washers you used??

V.interesting about the brake line issue with the Z3 trailing arms, the 318ti ones I used were exactly the same as the E30 brake lines.

[nando]

sorry, I was responding to the guy who wanted to go from 9.8 degrees to 9 - 8.5.

[Skafrog]

yea, woops. Caster. Just a couple letters :)

[Jason89i]

just out of curiousity, how thick are the spacers/washers you used??

There were two thicknesses of stainless steel washers at the hardware store. I used the thicker ones.....they were roughly 2.5mm thick. Pics got hosted. See attached pics and camber measurements of original post. Cheers.

[Bryson]

can you provide us a part number for the factory eccentric t-arm bushings? Or at least what model car they were available on so I can find em in the ETK?

Your suspension looks a lot like mine :) except that I don't have stock spring perches.. your wheel looks like it's still too far back though (as is mine)

[E30-323ti]

geez, you owe me for this, it took about an hour for the dirty old PC to boot up.

It is part 9 on the "rear axle support/wheel suspension" screen.
33 32 9 058 822 eccentric
33 32 9 061 945 normal

[Bryson]

woooo thanks man

[ajs1]

Cool work guys, I'm new on this forum.

I've also done this swap. Still waiting on a pair of 96+ E36 m3 arms, then I'l be done. I've gone and slotted the CAB bracket for additional forward wheel pos'n in combo with offset bushes. Without the M3 arms it's pretty close, so these I'm hoping will be the icing on the cake.

[Bryson]

exactly how far did you have yours slotted?

[E30-323ti]

I wouldn't run slotted CA mounts, you get more than stock castor with +96 M3 CA's & offset CAB's without the risk of them moving under heavy breaking, just so the wheel "Looks" centered in the well, if you are dong this mod for looks you are doing it for the wrong reason, but, to each their own I guess.

[ajs1]

I slotted the mounts exactly 5mm. I've also made a small spacer that fits in the back side of the bracket to fill in the space created by the slot, it kind of resembles a quarter moon. So that will stop any "slipping' of the bracket on the rail under load.

It's not just for looks, it's to get the wheebase correct and to stop the tyre rubbing on the foot well on full steering lock. The whole issue comes from the different distance between strut axis/centreline to lower ball joint centre. I'm sure these must be different between the e30 and E36 strut. I'm not sure how the castor angles compare between cars, but to me it seems that if you use the e36 strut in the e30, but keeping it at the same angles as the e36, and the stub axle as your datum, and wanting (for a start point), the lower ball joint and the top bolt of the strut to also have the same relationship they had in the E36, it might mean moving the top forwards from where the E30 tower would place it, hence the need for adjustable top plates also. This might explain how the guys at AKG motorsport in the US get their V8 e30 to "look' correct. Granted the moving forward of the top of the strut would only give a small change in wheel pos'n forward/aft.

In theory then you would get the same geometry as an e36, which you could then 'add' castor to by moving the top of strut rearwards.

One thing I've yet to see anyone really talk about, is the one final concern I have that by moving the lower ball joint so far forwards relative to the steering rack, will it compromise the factory steering geometry and ackerman angles??? So there's a question to you guys. I dont think BMW ever used offset bushes on the e96+ cars So by us using both at once i wonder if we've gone too far??

My extra 5mm gained by my slotted CAB's could possibly make this a little worse??

Only those that have done this already might be able to comment on how the steering 'feels'? Otherwise the only way to analyse it properly is to feed all the angles etc into a CAD package and recalculte the toe curves etc.

Ok enough essay writing.. .hehe And anyone who mentions that we all should have just used E30 m3 suspension keep your trap shut... hehe Doing the E36 swap is more about just doing something different too. I'm in australia so the chances of me finding those parts here are about as good as me winning the lottery....

[E30-323ti]

I have done the swap and the link in my first post has my wheel alignment specs.
If you keep pushing the wheel forward (without moving the strut top forward also) to get it centered (or wheelbase back) you will run too much castor and end up making any inherant alignment problems worse and heavier steering.
As far as the foot well goes, it's called a hammer, my 245/40's fit fine with a little massaging.

Did you get your little half moons welded in?? A few spots with a TIG at least.

The E30 Castor (~9d) is alot more than a E36 (~6d).
As far as handling goes, I can not notice a difference compared to the E30 parts, turn's in just as well, no strange bump-steer etc...

[ajs1]

[quote=As far as the foot well goes, it's called a hammer, my 245/40's fit fine with a little massaging.

Did you get your little half moons welded in?? A few spots with a TIG at least.

The E30 Castor (~9d) is alot more than a E36 (~6d).
As far as handling goes, I can not notice a difference compared to the E30 parts, turn's in just as well, no strange bump-steer etc...[/quote]

Yeah, I could get the hammer out, but would prefer not to if I can help it, Hence me wanting the wheel pos'n close to orig.

Yep I've 'tacked welded" in the liittle moons..

Thankss for the alignment specs, they probably help explain why the steering of a stock E30 still feels a little more alive than the E36.

If you say the steering still feels good after all of these changes then that's good enough for me not to worry too much about what I mentioned earlier.

Cheers.

[E30-323ti]

Yeah, I could get the hammer out, but would prefer not to if I can help it, Hence me wanting the wheel pos'n close to orig.

I guess you aren't trying to fit huge tyres in then either??

I need to update the alignment specs as I now have camber/castor plates so camber is -1d now, not +0.7d