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Old 08-02-2017, 03:38 AM   #1
alistairolsen
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What is gained from E36 M3 5 lug swap?

So I've been researching a 5 lug swap, mainly for increased selection of OEM wheels.

I'd also like larger brakes using some standard disks and pads, options are possible for both 4 and 5 lug.

The e30 M3 arrangement offers easy roll centre correction but is so rare and expensive in the UK it's not a contender.

So I'm trying to weigh up using E36 M3 control arms, hubs, brakes and dampers

OR

E30 51mm struts, dampers and control arms, with one of the sleeve kits to allow the use of a 5 stud hub and 325mm disk.

Since both allow the use of the same wheels, disks, calipers, are there any other advantages to using the later parts? I believe the control arm bushings are identical, as is the damping rate for Bilsteins?

Thanks
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Old 08-04-2017, 07:42 AM   #2
ngampleh
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The benefit with sleeve kit adapter is keep stock suspension geometry...

If you use e36m3 part, I am pretty sure the geometry not same anymore...
Unless you just want to do for cosmetic wheels

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Old 08-04-2017, 09:40 AM   #3
alistairolsen
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That part I understand. I guess what I'm saying is that I have 51mm ABS struts and could buy a sleeve kit, which maintains stock geo provided I buy wheels with the correct offset. This will work with 7 series 4 pots on a 325mm disk

OR

I could go for the E36 M3 front end, which seems uncertain on the geometry, will have the same size disks but sliding calipers, uses more expensive dampers of the same stiffness

I dont see the advantage, so either there isnt one, or I'm missing something, in which case please tell me!

Cheers
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Old 08-04-2017, 06:56 PM   #4
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The sleeve kit gives you big brakes and keeps stock geometry.

The e36 parts bucket swap gives you big brakes, with compromised geometry.

Or, buy a BBK for the stock 4 lug.

5 lug = better wheel selection.
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Old 08-09-2017, 07:29 AM   #5
alistairolsen
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I definitely want 5 lug wheels.

It feels to me like the sleeves are a nicer solution as long as the stock geometry works well and the dampers are sufficiently stiff (in terms of bending, not compression).

Some of the sleeves seem to cause ABS issues, some dont. More research required!
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Old 08-09-2017, 11:15 AM   #6
The Dark Side of Will
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What do the E30 M3 parts change about roll center?
I thought the only difference was caster.
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Old 08-09-2017, 01:56 PM   #7
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I'm not sure if there is much of a geometry change, stock for stock, but the E30 M3 parts allow you to add an aftermarket spacer to alter roll center.
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Old 08-09-2017, 02:06 PM   #8
MrBurgundy
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exactly one lug per wheel
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:46 AM   #9
The Dark Side of Will
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I'm not sure if there is much of a geometry change, stock for stock, but the E30 M3 parts allow you to add an aftermarket spacer to alter roll center.
Oh, steering arm spacer.

Well... the E30 front ends need more camber gain anyway.
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Old 08-10-2017, 10:11 AM   #10
alistairolsen
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Yes, but the steering arm isnt the gain, its the position of the lower balljoint on the control arm which affects the roll centre. The steering arm moving is just a bonus.
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:00 AM   #11
The Dark Side of Will
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Lol... yeah, I understand that.
Steering arm moving isn't a bonus. It's necessary because otherwise you'd get bump steer.
(If by some magical method you could more the outer ball joint down without moving the tie rod end down)
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:48 AM   #12
alistairolsen
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Absolutely, but on most cars the steering is the easy bit, with something like this:



The difficulty is the bottom balljoint which can only really be dealt with like this normally (and then doesnt last long)


If it was possible to space the balljoint and you had to arrange something else for the steering arm that would still be a win, so the steering arm is just a bonus in that it saves you implementing another easy solution.

Another example



Of course you have to move both!
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Old 08-11-2017, 10:47 AM   #13
The Dark Side of Will
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Lol some more. I got it... a long time ago.

It just happens that the component in BMW's that allows a simple spacer to make these adjustments is called the "steering arm"

And this is fucking scary:


That's putting probably three times the design torque through the ball joint mounts. He's probably running slicks, too. Jeebus. I hope I don't come across him on the Nurburgring.

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