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Old 03-28-2019, 08:58 PM   #31
nando
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Seems like a similar weight to an M52/4 aluminum block. Kinda disappointing
The light weight of the N52 is in way more than just the block. Everything from the rods, pistons, bolts and camshafts are weight optimized. We already know the N52 weighs less than the M54, unless you think BMW was lying through their teeth.

Also keep in mind that even if the weight of the block is similar - the N5x blocks are simply much, much stronger due to the bedplate design. The *stock* redline on the N52 is higher than you should ever rev an M54 if you don't want to throw a rod.

The M54 block is basically an M50 block cast in aluminum, while the N5x blocks were designed from scratch to be made from lighter materials (which also includes the S55).

In any case, the block all by itself is 36lbs lighter than the iron M5x, without accounting for the other further weight optimizations. It's just an interesting data point. I figure a complete N52 is nearly 150lbs lighter than the S54.

And the highest output stock N52 makes 40bhp more than the maxed out M54B30 ZHP, while also being more efficient. It's just too bad BMW was forced to stop further N/A engine development, an N/A M version would have been awesome.

They built engines based on this design for over a decade, and the B58 is descendent - I hardly think BMW didn't think it was a worth the trouble.
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Old 03-29-2019, 11:11 PM   #32
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Lots of pictures tonight.

The not-a-sump bolted right up to the bottom of the real engine. No surprises there.

Starting to wonder at this point if this was really the right engine, and wondering if I should have looked a little harder to see if the core support really didnít unbolt.

The not-a-sump doing its job stopping me from bashing the oil pump into the paintwork.

I had to unmount the water pump for clearance. I donít think I would have had to if Iíd pulled the wiring tray from the firewall, but I was up against that at the rear. You can see my attempt to bend the flange on the core support to buy another half inch.

IN-stalled. This is sitting on a piece of 3/4 ply on the crossmember and wedged in place with blocks either side, with another block under the trans. Inches out of place, but it felt solid enough to unbolt the lift for the now.

Definitely sitting too high as the hood is fouling the oil filter cap.

The good news is thereís a ton of sump room under here as expected.

Not a very helpful shot, just showing that I can go down about another inch before starting to think about clearance to the steering rack.

Next time Iím out here Iíll have the engine hanging from the beam lift so the crane will be out of the way. I think the first job will be getting everything straight enough to build a trans mount. Then maybe sit in it and make engine noises?



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Old 03-30-2019, 03:29 PM   #33
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In any case, the block all by itself is 36lbs lighter than the iron M5x, without accounting for the other further weight optimizations. It's just an interesting data point. I figure a complete N52 is nearly 150lbs lighter than the S54.

I like everything in this post. I'm currently doing an m4x build for my e30, as I couldn't stomach the idea of adding a heavier motor to the chassis. N52 is basically the only option for a straight 6 for me. Looking forward to progress on these builds
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Old 04-07-2019, 11:20 AM   #34
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FWIW I looked up the block/rotating assembly weights in RealOEM.

M42: 35.5kg (78lb)
M54: 35.0kg (77lb)
N52: 33.0kg (73lb)

Take the weights with a little grain of salt. Bottom line though is the N52 is going to be roughly the same weight as M42 with a ton more potential. As mentioned previously the N52 had an overall “lightweighting” philosophy so the end weight is very nice for an I6!

If I didn’t have my chassis all set for an M42 I would go N52 in a heartbeat. Ill probably pick one up to clean up and go through on the side once I get my car running again. M42 made sense half a decade ago when I did the work...but no longer.
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:45 PM   #35
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That's cool. I wonder about the differences in cranks, rods and pistons.

The N52 has hollow formed camshafts, but it has a lot more parts in the head overall. I'd bet the heads are a wash when it comes to weight, but BMW definitely paid attention to the rods (tapered small ends, cracked cap, etc). I have no idea what the differences in cranks are, but the claimed ~25lb difference had to have come from somewhere (I don't think there's 20lbs of bolts, even if they are aluminum on the N52).

I should just go ahead and tear apart the junkyard motor I have and weigh everything.

If you ever want to do an N52, well, I'm like right in your back yard (still can't believe we've never met?).

One thing the N series have going for it is the Vanos. Not only does it have the most range of adjustment of any BMW engine before it, it basically never, ever breaks. There was a recall for a small window of production where the bolts weren't up to par, but other than that, it lasts forever and requires no maintenance. Worst thing that happens is you need to pull the solenoids and clean them (which I've never had to do). The Vanos on my junkyard motor has almost 300,000 miles on it and it still worked fine before it was pulled.
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Old 04-09-2019, 11:54 AM   #36
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I canít believe I have not made it over to check out your IX or anything. My youngest is getting to the point he does not require so much attention so I am hoping to get back to hobbys...you know how it goes!

Work, family, house stuff is my life now

FYI The PACCAR open house is this weekend. Not sure if you have taken the kids there before. Engine lab and climate chamber chassis dyno should be available for viewing
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Old 04-10-2019, 02:59 PM   #37
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We should do lunch. my ix is kind of a pile though.

I know what you mean about kids/house lol. Actually they would probably love the PACCAR open house - but we have a scouts activity at the same time. Maybe next year
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Old 04-10-2019, 06:04 PM   #38
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We should do lunch. my ix is kind of a pile though.

I know what you mean about kids/house lol. Actually they would probably love the PACCAR open house - but we have a scouts activity at the same time. Maybe next year
Im sure my E30 is the bigger pile. It hasnt moved under its own power in years! Really gunning to have it operational this summer because my oldest keeps asking for a ride in it
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Old 04-10-2019, 06:22 PM   #39
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Lol if everyone in the n52 swap thread could stop talking about how their cars donít run thatíd be great


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Old 04-10-2019, 08:56 PM   #40
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My N52 has been on an engine stand for 3 years. how does that make you feel? lol
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Old 04-10-2019, 08:59 PM   #41
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Hahahaha.


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Old 06-17-2019, 07:12 AM   #42
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Lots of pictures tonight.
[IMG]hxxps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190330/4f34a47b59e22ee007a468140b53f7b0.jpg[/IMG]
The not-a-sump bolted right up to the bottom of the real engine. No surprises there.
[IMG]hxxps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190330/bb4e38b2ddbafd9cdc907e9ee8558342.jpg[/IMG]
Starting to wonder at this point if this was really the right engine, and wondering if I should have looked a little harder to see if the core support really didnít unbolt.
[IMG]hxxps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190330/53e8fc290261288de9842f7194a9edd9.jpg[/IMG]
The not-a-sump doing its job stopping me from bashing the oil pump into the paintwork.
[IMG]hxxps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190330/12d20b51fa3651941596ccd12fe6612e.jpg[/IMG]
I had to unmount the water pump for clearance. I donít think I would have had to if Iíd pulled the wiring tray from the firewall, but I was up against that at the rear. You can see my attempt to bend the flange on the core support to buy another half inch.
[IMG]hxxps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190330/3d40544fa1e581b2d10123f985fdf293.jpg[/IMG]
IN-stalled. This is sitting on a piece of 3/4 ply on the crossmember and wedged in place with blocks either side, with another block under the trans. Inches out of place, but it felt solid enough to unbolt the lift for the now.
[IMG]hxxps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190330/117bb4f20f7240732054cd8a025b12bf.jpg[/IMG]
Definitely sitting too high as the hood is fouling the oil filter cap.
[IMG]hxxps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190330/6ee8e39d48df55ac6fc1ae90b1fbe764.jpg[/IMG]
The good news is thereís a ton of sump room under here as expected.
[IMG]hxxps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190330/b0f7781c0435bc59c5208b578426ee10.jpg[/IMG]
Not a very helpful shot, just showing that I can go down about another inch before starting to think about clearance to the steering rack.

Next time Iím out here Iíll have the engine hanging from the beam lift so the crane will be out of the way. I think the first job will be getting everything straight enough to build a trans mount. Then maybe sit in it and make engine noises?



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Is there any chance you'd be able to mock the engine up using Z4 arms and some OEM engine mount bushings by chance? Or, what are your engine arm plans?

Your not-oilpan definitely has give hope to the rest of us without a modified subframe.

I'm also looking to get one of these cars fitted with an N52 as well.

E30+Z4 Arms+ (unknown) trans support + custom pan= workable car... right?

I'd be much more active in figuring this out first hand if I had space to have cars, but my current situation (apartment and no garage, outdoor only parking, etc...) precludes me from doing this.

To help the current pieces of the puzzle:

E60 (525) harness is 4-5" longer and may help out any routing issues encountered in this swap.

The 944 master cylinder(or was it booster?) is said to have close to stock feel while providing more clearance, but the shop I was talking to hadn't directly done one of these swaps.

Heard good things about the e90 brake booster/master cylinder, and the... e60? Heard it clocks the line in a more conducive to fitment routing.

Is the Z4/X3 DME still ideal, or is there something else we should be looking at? I'd like to start gathering the small parts to make this swap go.
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Old 06-17-2019, 10:08 AM   #43
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I don't know if the E60 harness is required. the E90 is a lot bigger than the E30, and the DME is already on the right side - I think it reaches without modifying it?

the DME doesn't need to be from a Z4/X3. it doesn't matter what it is from at all really - all of that will be overwritten with the swap flash anyway. MSV70 is still more ideal for swap flashes since I have 99.9% of it mapped.
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Old 06-17-2019, 10:50 AM   #44
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Finally someone replied so I can type again... CWLO's install uses the z4 arms, and they are off by what sounded like 2" (too forward I think?). There is no factory engine arm that positions the block correctly, because the "block side" of the engine arms has changed from all of the interchangeable e36 and m5x arms. There are cars that have had both the M5x and N52 engine installed from factory, but they're the cars which you'd need to source alternate arms to use as a donor (that is, if you take an M54 from a Z4, you need to find arms from an E36 to locate the block in your e30. Since the N52 offered in the Z4 is "only" in cars with the motor mounts in the wrong place for the e30, something needs to be fabricated).

I believe CWLO solved this by cutting the Z4 arms, respositioning them, and re-welding. I don't have a lot of confidence in this as a long term solution for the group for a few reasons. It's not particularly reproducible, I don't love the idea of welding the optimized/gusseted/webbed design of the arm, and I don't love the idea of (myself, certainly) welding a cast aluminum piece.

My goal for the engine and trans mounts is to base the location front-to-back on the shifter position, expecting that this will give me firewall and radiator clearance. I have a friend with an N52 328i to give me a good reference for centerline and longitudinal rotation, and then I'm expecting to have to build my own arms out of plate. Ideally I'll do this with enough competence that my pieces could be re-cut and assembled to locate any N52 in any e30?

I'm expecting to give up on power brakes and retain ABS
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Old 06-17-2019, 11:17 AM   #45
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I don't know if the E60 harness is required. the E90 is a lot bigger than the E30, and the DME is already on the right side - I think it reaches without modifying it?

the DME doesn't need to be from a Z4/X3. it doesn't matter what it is from at all really - all of that will be overwritten with the swap flash anyway. MSV70 is still more ideal for swap flashes since I have 99.9% of it mapped.
Nando: Never thought it would be required, its just another option... plus I wasn't sure as to length requirements. Just more information, albeit probably less useful information, to file away. Might help someone's swap if they have interesting requirements/parts.

Gotcha, MSV70 is preferred for swap flashes. It interfaces with the CAN boards too... Have you been able to get the E30 dash to mate-up/display what the new ECU relays? Or would one need to get a new dash/display?

Quote:
Finally someone replied so I can type again... CWLO's install uses the z4 arms, and they are off by what sounded like 2" (too forward I think?). There is no factory engine arm that positions the block correctly, because the "block side" of the engine arms has changed from all of the interchangeable e36 and m5x arms. There are cars that have had both the M5x and N52 engine installed from factory, but they're the cars which you'd need to source alternate arms to use as a donor (that is, if you take an M54 from a Z4, you need to find arms from an E36 to locate the block in your e30. Since the N52 offered in the Z4 is "only" in cars with the motor mounts in the wrong place for the e30, something needs to be fabricated).

I believe CWLO solved this by cutting the Z4 arms, respositioning them, and re-welding. I don't have a lot of confidence in this as a long term solution for the group for a few reasons. It's not particularly reproducible, I don't love the idea of welding the optimized/gusseted/webbed design of the arm, and I don't love the idea of (myself, certainly) welding a cast aluminum piece.

My goal for the engine and trans mounts is to base the location front-to-back on the shifter position, expecting that this will give me firewall and radiator clearance. I have a friend with an N52 328i to give me a good reference for centerline and longitudinal rotation, and then I'm expecting to have to build my own arms out of plate. Ideally I'll do this with enough competence that my pieces could be re-cut and assembled to locate any N52 in any e30?

I'm expecting to give up on power brakes and retain ABS
Hubcapboy, my apologies on thinking the Z4 mounts would be plug and play. Definitely appreciate you confirming for me that they do not work... Your menthodology for locating the engine and transmission sounds solid to me, and presents the ability to use already existing parts(shifters and shift linkages), plus that'd be a nasty part that I wouldn't want to deal with.

I'm with you that welding and resectioning OEM arms is not the best solution... If its not plug and play, not worth messing with them. Complete fabrication to allow use of OEM/aftermarket BMW mounts would be much better as far as engine/trans placement and reproduceability.

If you use the N54 intake manifold chances are stronger that you could keep power brakes... much smaller manifold, and with minor clearancing/adjustment, can mate up much better than the simple bolt-up suggests.

Definitely looking forward to how you work this set-up. I'm in the process of amassing funds, and knowledge so that I can hopefully get a swap car working in a matter of weeks/months, rather than year time frames...

It's nice that I'm relatively close to Kassel tuning, I picked their brains on a few things the other day.

Also;

What is this about an n52 exhaust cam? Is someone developing someone or are we looking at a regrind?

I remember that RiotRacing was doing some N52 cams and then... well... it didn't end so well when it sounds like they did an exhaust grind on the intake and an intake grind on the exhaust and not going with the customers cam centerlines... but then again I'm not sure/don't know the whole story.
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