Question for the hardcore 2A guys.....

[Mediumrarechicken]

yeah...Follow the Money...who's behind THAT?!

Im my uneducated brain, I think of knives as tools to do work with. The military didn't hire a contractor to design knives. Sure, they're really pointy and can do damage....if you're up close!

<EDIT> I never said I want to ban ARs. I want a discussion on why we need them.

Umm yeah the government did/does have contractors make bayonets and knives


Its not a need it's a want, because we CAN. Life is full of wants that some people say are needs, like internet, cars that go over the speed limit, ect. The only real needs in life is food, water, and protection from the elements.

I'm going to get a .50 bmg because I can and want one, and I'll do whatever the hell I want with it.

[mbonder]

the point was the big bad "assualt rifles" Pelosi, Schumer and the democrat party hold up after a shooting are pure politics to repeal the 2nd amendment.

And in response to previous posts about "really" would the government actually impose martial law, confiscate guns and basically hold the population hostage? the 2nd amendment is the ONLY thing that prevents it, period. the protection of the 2nd is as relevant today as it was when it was passed, perhaps more with all the shit the government does now

Do you really believe that the private populace has enough of an arsenal to stand up to the US military if the government were to enforce martial law? Maybe before tanks and planes and smart bombs and drones this was the case, but I doubt that even the most awesome collection of weapons is going to do much against a professional, technically advanced, military force?

I think this justification is erroneous in the modern era given what the military is now versus what it was. I'm not arguing that people shouldn't be able t town guns, however, can we see gun ownership for what it really is, something vastly different than for a "well regulated militia" of the 1800s.

[mrsleeve]

You reliaze that the just the people who take to the woods on the opening day of firearm deer season in the states of MI, WI, PA, NY, IL, and TX alone outnumber any standing army in the world right. Almost all of them armed with long range high power center fire weapons with optical sights . Also during 1 quarter of 2015 Americans bought enough fire arms to out fit the entirety of the Chinese and Russian standing armies combined.....

[kronus]

You reliaze that the just the people who take to the woods on the opening day of firearm deer season in the states of MI, WI, PA, NY, IL, and TX alone outnumber any standing army in the world right. Almost all of them armed with long range high power center fire weapons with optical sights . Also during 1 quarter of 2015 Americans bought enough fire arms to out fit the entirety of the Chinese and Russian standing armies combined.....

so how well did that work for the Bundys, sleeve?

[cale]

Your posts are painful to read.

[varg]

This thread

None of you are going to change any minds by calling people names, stereotyping and (attempting to) ridicule.

[mrsleeve]

so how well did that work for the Bundys, sleeve?

not to bad in the end, since all charges have been dropped for the NV case and the acquitted in OR......

Seems the Feds lied to the court in 2014 case and withheld key evidence violating the Brady rule.

One can be forgiven that most people would be unaware of all this since CNN. LA times, NY times, Huffpo etc.... were all too busy screaming Russian Collusion, who was inappropriate to who #me too. And who was late to the Golden Globes etc..... Vs reporting the federal prosecutors were trying to railroad people and got caught in a high profile case. I am just using this ordeal as point that when faced with people willing to stand for them selves with the ability to defend them selves (right or wrong) it forces the govt to take pause and consider their actions far more carefuly. Vs agents of the state being the only ones with any means of force.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/08/charges-against-rancher-cliven-bundy-three-others-are-dismissed.html

A federal judge dismissed all charges against Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, his two sons and another man on Monday after accusing prosecutors of willfully withholding evidence from Bundy’s lawyers.

U.S. District Judge Gloria Navarro cited "flagrant prosecutorial misconduct" in her decision to dismiss all charges against the Nevada rancher and three others.

"The court finds that the universal sense of justice has been violated," Navarro said.

[decay]

not to bad in the end

this guy might disagree with you, if he were still breathing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sR1hGpZQ5U

[mrsleeve]

^
Nice try, that was the Oregon ordeal not the incident I was primarily referring too (other than in passing to mention them being cleared of those charges as well), as that was staged on public land Vs privately held land, and the will full destruction of private property by agents of the state in a contested legal battle.

[lambo]

Does anyone here disagree with more in-depth background checks and raised age limits for rifle purchases?

[Mediumrarechicken]

Does anyone here disagree with more in-depth background checks and raised age limits for rifle purchases?

I'd love better background checks, the age limit thing is silly. You can vote, smoke, and join the military but not buy a rifle... even the semi auto version of what uncle Sam gave you? People under the age of 21 can have a pistol, but they can't buy it and the can only use it as home defense and taking it to a range.

[mrsleeve]

SO ..................... I missed this

Snuck in an edit after the fact?
No, laws and people who understand and respect laws protect you. You pay your taxes to hire competent Sheriffs and Police to uphold those laws. If our kids were educated, they would respect that system and not want to steal from neighbors. There are a tiny handful of bad people out there, sure. But that sounds like vigilante talk - who is coming for you exactly?

Oh wow we do have some common ideological/factual ground here it seems. Well raised and adjusted kids make respectful well adjusted productive adults. Also in agreement that its a small fraction that make trouble. So by that argument you, yourself just made its very very small fraction of people in position of firearms that use them for inappropriate things. So while we dont punish all drivers for the ones that drive drunk by installing breathalyzer interlock devices on everyone else's cars, just the ones that drive drunk. We dont take away sports cars from everyone, based on the fact that a few people drive them way too fast and hurt/kill themselves or others. Why are you wishing to treat firearms in that very manner, we dont blame the car in those instances so why are you blaming the firearm or the access to it.

We have moved in closer to town in recent years since I am away from home so much, and partly in case there is ever a need for emergency services the response time would likely be measured in 1/4 hours not in hours. Even still for us now the Police are only minuets, when its only a few Seconds that matter, should there ever be an issue 2 or 4 legged.

Also when you couple that very very real fact of life we have a number of court cases that pertain to the police and the duty to put their life on the line for yours. Most notably SCOTUS Warren Vs District of Columbia and SCOTUS Gonzales Vs Castle Rock. In short there is no constitutional duty for an officer or public servant to come to your aid if they would be in fear for their own life or limb.

If you break the law - for years and years - and don't respond to summons and fines, and threaten the Sheriff who comes to talk about it....then arm yourself to fight the federal government and call THEM the SS?! That's f-ed up. This land is our land, that public grazing land is MY land....not his to steal.

I am not speaking to the validity of the claims the bundys used to justify their actions . (must be something there since the Judge called out the prosecutors for withholding evidence an cleared them of all charges). I am speaking of the govt being forced to take pause and not just storm the private property because someone dared to stand up to them. Or maybe you would have been happy if the Federal sharp shooters were to take the 1st shots at women and children again.

We do get out of town, it's boring and provincial here. We are children of the big open west, not Michigan. Those parts are ours, you know, we've been up there and all around for a long time. My wife's family still has 50 acres of beautiful forest up there. Friends of our parents started Big Mountain. We were homesteaders in the 1800s. We worked in the underground mines in Butte, some of us died under there. We ran the mail stage through Yellowstone Park in the teens, shod the Park's horses, outfitted north of there - one time Teddy Roosevelt came to hunt on our ranch. We were well know artists and engineers and teachers in small towns. We ran feed and grain stores in Wilsall - know where that is? We were the Sheriff and upheld the law.

So....

OH wow.................. Going to pull that I am a son of the west, you weren't born here and I was, you dont belong now fuck off card...... Typical.

I can play this game too, as I can trace both sides of my family back to the late 1600s when they landed in New England long before the author of the Declaration of Independence was itch in his fathers Sack. I have had family living in the the Western Nebraska territory since before in became the Dakota, and the homesteader than moved west after her husband died to become one of the 1st Single women in the territory to have large land holdings.

I chose to live here because I can live anywhere I wish too, and because this area while changing fast still embodies a lot of my values more so than where I was born. (the scenery helps I will admit). I live here for what it is, your family may have had a far greater hand in building whats here than mine and for that I am grateful to have the level of services that would likely not be here otherwise. That said as person that spends more hours in the back country (as work permits) than most, we have been places around here that natives such as your self have never been to in their 40+ years living here. Sometimes we take for granted the things that have always been there in front of us.......... Sometimes we just want to leave it all behind for something new that we forget how good what we have really was, until its not there anymore.

Oh and yes I know where Wilsall is my grandparents and I stopped there some time in the early 90's (91 or 92 I think) and had a nice lunch at a little diner there, its somewhere north of Livingston aways IIRC

Does anyone here disagree with more in-depth background checks and raised age limits for rifle purchases?

If your not an adult until 21 then we raise the voting age, the smoking age, draft age, and every other right of passage into legal adulthood to 21.

I am all for the various alphabet soup of agencies that are supposed to be reporting accurate and pertinent info to the NICS databases DOING THAT....... Lets enforce the laws we have and make sure they are being properly applied before we start adding more to them in a knee jerk reaction to a tragety .....

[decay]

^
Nice try, that was the Oregon ordeal not the incident I was primarily referring too (other than in passing to mention them being cleared of those charges as well), as that was staged on public land Vs privately held land, and the will full destruction of private property by agents of the state in a contested legal battle.

bullshit they're unrelated, the oregon "ordeal" was orchestrated by the bundy property owner's son.

YOU try again, sweetheart.

[lambo]

I'd love better background checks, the age limit thing is silly. You can vote, smoke, and join the military but not buy a rifle... even the semi auto version of what uncle Sam gave you? People under the age of 21 can have a pistol, but they can't buy it and the can only use it as home defense and taking it to a range.

You can't legally drink under 21. Do you disagree with that too? I'm legitimately curious because I think an age limit on gun purchases across the board is a good idea. I don't believe in an age limit for gun ownership though. Just for purchasing.

[mrsleeve]

bullshit they're unrelated, the oregon "ordeal" was orchestrated by the bundy property owner's son.

YOU try again, sweetheart.

same participants, different circumstances, and also they were cleared of the charges levied against them in that instance.......

The guy reached into his coat while feds were pointing guns at him, what did he expect to happen.......