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Old 02-13-2019, 09:11 AM   #16
roguetoaster
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I don't think the education system is the one failing. If there are failures to the education here in the US, it won't be the system but the school or the student itself. Many schools are being so competitive and loses focus on training the students on how to become a professional by inserting subjects that have very less chance of being tackled outside the school. My point is, even in college, they let you study movement of atomic stuffs like electrons and neutrons, and you're trying to become a nurse. I read an essay of my cousin from a website recommended by [URL="some hyperlink[/URL] about students criticizing their school for having extra subjects and I say they are not wrong. The system is good, it's just that some schools are more on becoming a "company" than a "school".
Not sure if bot or genuine first post. If the former, it's a sad day when bots tell humans that they need to be less educated. If the latter, well rounded education is important as it allows the mind to make connections beyond rote knowledge.
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Old 02-13-2019, 09:26 AM   #17
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i think it's more about public education that's failing
It highly depends on the neighborhood. The merit based system our education has in place financially rewards high performing schools and penalizes low performing schools. Exactly opposite of how a fair system would function to equalize the levels of education.
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Old 02-13-2019, 11:27 AM   #18
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Not sure if bot or genuine first post. If the former, it's a sad day when bots tell humans that they need to be less educated. If the latter, well rounded education is important as it allows the mind to make connections beyond rote knowledge.
definitely spam.
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Old 02-14-2019, 07:21 AM   #19
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It highly depends on the neighborhood. The merit based system our education has in place financially rewards high performing schools and penalizes low performing schools. Exactly opposite of how a fair system would function to equalize the levels of education.
Actually, in many cases it's the exact opposite. The schools that are the lowest performing receive the most money.

NJ example because that's my locality:

Asbury Park: $35,636/student, 86% from the state
Greater Brunswick Charter School: $35,981, 64% from the state
Keansburg: $31,436, 85% from the state
Camden: $29,455, 92% from the state
New Horizons Charter Schools: $27,701, 80% from the state
East Orange: $27,699, 89% from the state

All of these are in lower income areas where the test scores are generally lower and student performance by any measure is generally lower. They are all listed on the state's database of worst performing schools, yet they get the most money from the state.

The only districts that spend more money per student than these districts do are those where the people of that district vote to increase their taxes to pump more money into the schools of that district, although the difference between those schools and the ones list above is only a few thousand per student if that.

I'm not going to claim that this is uniform across the entire US, but I would bet that in many states the same thing happens. There's more money spent on the lowest performing districts but the results don't come. This is the quandary of education, that you can't distill it down to one variable like money spent per student. The reality is that in many cases it's much more important for students to live in stable households with two parents that support and love them. I've seen people who have next to no money but will do anything for the success of their children and those students achieve great success and are their family's bridge out of poverty. I've also seen students that come from tons of money and fail miserably because their family situation is jacked up beyond words and no amount of money will replace the stable environment that students need for academic success.
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Old 02-14-2019, 08:45 AM   #20
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that is definitely not how it works here in california.

i learned while working operations/QA/project management for an educational company and talking to teachers at a convention we threw that funding is largely derived from the school area's property taxes, which serves to further entrench lower-income communities in poverty, because the schools rich people's kids go to get better funding, and thus better educational outcomes.

the teacher who was trying to run a STEM program at his school in east palo alto (one of the bay area's hoods) was understandably pissed about this.

it's entirely fucked up.
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Old 02-15-2019, 05:41 PM   #21
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And our citizens also have the highest rate of secondary education attainment in the world. So, what gives?
How's that shoehorning everyone into indebting themselves to the govt for a degree with relatively few job prospects working out, last I heard those student loans were really piling up.
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Old 02-15-2019, 11:05 PM   #22
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Damn this ended up way longer than I expected... I have successfully avoided this part of the forum for years, but a spammer sucked me in. Excuse me while I pontificate.

Money isn't everything, of course. Our schools locally are underperforming, but most of that is due to specific populations - it has little to do with the quality of staff or the curriculum. Whoever said that having a stable home life and supportive parents (or other adults) is the most important thing hit the nail on the head - but money definitely helps.

Some of these kids have no chance. My wife works for the school our kids go to - we are very lucky, it's not perfect, but my kids will be fine - because we support them. They have basic needs met (food, shelter, family), and we make sure they do their best (and there are consequences if they don't).

A not insignificant number of parents can't even bother to bring their kids to school on time, or they are too busy working 2nd or 3rd jobs to have time to care. Too many kids come to school hungry, without getting a good night's sleep, or having to wear the same dirty clothes every day - they are doomed to fail. The sad thing about stereotypes is there's a grain of thruth to them.

Don't blame the teachers - 99.9% put way beyond what they should into helping as many kids as they can, and if you've taught for a public institution (I have), they probably put in way more hours than what their pay is worth.

The curriculum is fine (make fun of common core all you like, most parents are too dumb to help their kids with "old school" math anyway). But schools that are falling apart and severely underfunded does not help anyone, rich or poor.

Our local high school is horrible. Not the teachers, or the students, but the facility should have been leveled and rebuilt 20 years ago. My grandfather was the senior groundskeeper when I was a kid (a long damn time ago), and the school is literally exactly the same as it was back then (only older and more decrepit).

I just voted to increase my own taxes because there's no fucking way I want my kids to go to the same run down POS school their great grandfather maintained 30 years ago. The school is in such sorry shape, it's no wonder our dropout rate is one of the highest in the state.

There's not even a proper cafeteria, so half the kids leave at noon and don't come back. The school can't punish them because they can't even provide a space to feed them to begin with. Security is impossible (the school is probably 75 years old), and the district spends thousands maintaining a 1940s boiler system that they can't even buy parts for anymore (news flash, it's old and always broken).

That said, no, you don't need a 4-6 year degree to survive. If you can pull it off, great. But going 6 figures into debt to make $50k a year is insane. Luckily, I managed to make it through a 2 year degree without any debt, and worked my way up to a 6 figure salary despite my education handicap.

That doesn't work for everyone though. They need the basic support of a good education system, and our society benefits by providing them one.

It's sad that the bond measure that we just voted on, barely passed. Nobody likes taxes, but the irony is having a good education system benefits everyone financially - hell, my home equity will probably go *up* if we get a new school built.

No, money won't fix everything, some of these kids will fail no matter what we do - but it at least gives the kids who's parents are totally checked out a chance (if they're willing to work for it), and it's a pittance compared to what we spend on stupid crap like border wall fights.
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