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Old 04-08-2019, 10:39 AM   #61
phillipj
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"The Century of the Self" by Adam Curtis for the BBC. Check it out, definitely share what you think!

It's quite a documentary series about the beginning of PR -- manipulating the masses -- and how it eventually translates to politics or what we think we should be buying. Great history content here!

There may be better quality youtube links out there, but this one has all the episodes strung together into one.
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Old 04-26-2019, 05:42 PM   #62
naplesE30
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https://youtu.be/JVkkLDAm8I4

There are longer more in depth versions, make of it what you want.
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Old 04-27-2019, 09:10 PM   #63
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4 Steps to Subversion of a Nation:

Demoralization
Destabilization (economy, defense)
Crisis
Normalization

It's interesting in the context of the cold war, however he's saying that the last stage, normalization, will be a move to marxist-leninism, which I don't think we are moving toward. Bernie Sanders and the left movement aren't anywhere near Marxist-Leninism. People arguing otherwise don't really know what that political philosophy actually looks like in reality.
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Old 04-29-2019, 07:39 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbonder View Post
4 Steps to Subversion of a Nation:

Demoralization
Destabilization (economy, defense)
Crisis
Normalization

It's interesting in the context of the cold war, however he's saying that the last stage, normalization, will be a move to marxist-leninism, which I don't think we are moving toward. Bernie Sanders and the left movement aren't anywhere near Marxist-Leninism. People arguing otherwise don't really know what that political philosophy actually looks like in reality.
I would agree Marxism/Leninism is a stretch, but that may have been the goals in the 70’s when he was an agent. Goals and plans certainly are fluid and change over time. I don’t think Russia itself are even practicing those forms anymore. However, his forecasts are alarmingly accurate in some ways. Especially with the internet, the ability for a state to overwhelm one with information to where the truth is impossible to ascertain. I do think that it is evident though the Russia has had success influencing academia, as I am sure we also have had imposing our beliefs in Russia.

There was a good biographical series( may still be available) on Netflix or Prime that I watched on Trotsky. It is entertaining, and the actors are solid, even if it is a bit fantastical at times.

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Old 04-29-2019, 07:42 PM   #65
mbonder
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The problem that I have with it is that he makes a lot of claims that society was affected in some way (by Russia and the KGB) and that they are the reason for people holding the stances that they hold.

Although I don't doubt that the Soviets attempted plenty of propaganda in the name of swaying peoples' opinions, there's absolutely no way to prove any of it is directly connected to Russia (which sounds funny saying that in the context of the Mueller Report).

How can anyone prove that the Soviets had any influence over academia? It's impossible unless a professor comes out and says I'm all in for Mother Russia! Teachers in all disciplines have generally had a more liberal viewpoint when compared to many other sectors of society, this far predates Marxist-Leninism so his claims of their successes are highly dubious to me.
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:30 AM   #66
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Isn’t that the point of subversion. To influence another, without their knowledge of you manipulating them. I don’t think “Comunism is good, brough to you by mother Russia” billboards would be an effective strategy.
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Old 05-01-2019, 06:38 AM   #67
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My point is that anyone can claim that they influenced another person because subversion...

I just don't buy it, that an entire industry (academia) is wholly changed by one entity just doesn't sit with me.
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