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Old 12-01-2016, 07:25 AM   #16
wisslerj
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Go Beavers !!

Sorry - couldn't resist after the big victory last week. If I ever get to the point of looking at power upgrades I might try to get in touch with you.

Are you running FI and does the MS provide reasonable gains on an NA motor in your opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorvallisBMW View Post
As someone who ran a WAR setup for years and has recently switched to MS, I can tell you that MS is better in every way. If you're going FI, WAR chip is nearly impossible to make run well. NA motors are easier, but tuning is still a pain because you can't do anything live; you have to take the chip out, plug it into your PC, make changes, burn it, re-install, and then test drive. Didn't work out? Start again from step 1. Compare that to MS where you just change the value and it happens instantly, with zero other steps required. And, as others have mentioned, MS is expandable in that you can add features and functions in the future if you need them; not possible with WAR. Plus getting support for MS problems is much easier do to the massive number of people on the various MS forums. Ever since the Miller WAR Room page was shutdown, the only help you'll get is from Brody or Dan at Miller itself, and that's if they have the time to talk you through it.
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Old 12-01-2016, 08:20 AM   #17
berlow94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian e30 318is View Post
This is not true. I have the WAR chip and drilled the side of the ECU case to plug a USB cable into the chip which can be accessed in the car without removing the chip. Taking the chip out each time would ruin the chip very quickly.



To upload a new tune, the car needs to be off and like stated above, each tune needs to be burned to the chip. No live alterations can be made. This is a pain in the ass which is why I want to switch to MS.



Who's using MS with a 24v engine? Anyone have advice on which MS setup to go with and from which vendor for an s50?


Why go through the pain of configuring an MS3 for a 24v motor when Link makes a PnP ecu for roughly the same price. The hardware and software in the Link ecu is just about twice as good as MS!

http://www.aceperformancesystems.com...0-plug-in-ecu/


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Old 12-03-2016, 08:20 AM   #18
Mykk540i/6
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I have a W.A.R used on my M60 404 dme, it worked. It would likely be suitable for the majority of DIY gearheads. I just didn't feel it tapped into enough maps to be fully tuneable.

Ostrich 2.0 & TunerProRT work much better for my needs and is much cheaper then W.A.R.

The funny thing, I can load the .bin I use in TunerPro into Millers WAR software and the map addresses are the same, the fuel and ignition timing tables land in the correct corresponding maps in the software.
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Old 12-11-2016, 02:41 PM   #19
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I ran microsquirt when I had a FI m20. This e30 I plan on keeping NA; I ended up going with the WAR chip and MAF. It's been very easy for me to use, I don't plan on changing the tune now that I have something that works well, with no FI in the future the WAR setup fit the bill. And... I did not have to go to a tuner to get the job done. I just bought and old laptop for $70 to run the software.

I was looking at ITBs; I really wanted to go that option... If WAR could come out with a Alpha N that would work with that option I would be all over it...
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Old 12-11-2016, 02:43 PM   #20
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Oh- And I emailed the fella's at WAR a couple install questions and they got back to me right away- well done.
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Old 12-11-2016, 02:54 PM   #21
berlow94
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Is the WAR chip still a viable option?

I don't understand people's obsession with Alpha-N.
True Alpha-N (not factory ecu limp mode) is a Motorsport feature that is usually setup and fine tuned THAT DAY at a race track. It's designed to work solely based on throttle position for a set temperature, humidity, pressure, altitude.
Your ecu can't possibly run the motor safely and efficiently in a daily driving situation if it is running based solely on throttle position.

The only reason for this, from my understanding, was to quicken throttle response on these older computers. Modern day computers don't need this.

As of 2000+ most factory race teams aren't using alpha-n anymore. It's much safer to utilize closed loop lambda & knock control and transient trim tables.

With how cheap quality standalone computers have gotten, the money that you save up front with Miller MAF isn't worth the added danger IMO.


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Old 12-12-2016, 05:25 PM   #22
CorvallisBMW
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but Alpha-n is FUH-RAZE broooo
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I thought a rim job had more to do with the other...eh....end....

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Old 12-12-2016, 05:47 PM   #23
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I'm also a Miller to Megasquirt converter. Huge difference in every aspect for my turbo m20 - I echo what everyone else has said.
I've only seen people content with Miller's stuff it on NA motors. It's such a crude way of tuning for m20's, I hated it.
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Old 12-12-2016, 10:57 PM   #24
ForcedFirebird
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berlow94 View Post
I don't understand people's obsession with Alpha-N.
True Alpha-N (not factory ecu limp mode) is a Motorsport feature that is usually setup and fine tuned THAT DAY at a race track. It's designed to work solely based on throttle position for a set temperature, humidity, pressure, altitude.
Your ecu can't possibly run the motor safely and efficiently in a daily driving situation if it is running based solely on throttle position.

The only reason for this, from my understanding, was to quicken throttle response on these older computers. Modern day computers don't need this.

As of 2000+ most factory race teams aren't using alpha-n anymore. It's much safer to utilize closed loop lambda & knock control and transient trim tables.

With how cheap quality standalone computers have gotten, the money that you save up front with Miller MAF isn't worth the added danger IMO.


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In a nut shell, it's the lack of manifold pressure (MAP) or metered air flow (MAF), and basing your VE on throttle position, air/coolant temp and lambda (and knock sensors if equipped). Has nothing to do with "limp mode". While it does have it's quirks, it does work if the processing is fast enough.

You are correct that the early motronic is a total waste when in Alpha-N, there's simply not enough calculation power/speed in it to even come close to a daily. I've messed with the early s14 piggy-backs, and even tried rewriting code on the M1.3, but it simply is too "narrow minded". It would either run great at idle/partial throttle, or WOT (or even in a specific band of RPM), but wouldn't do both (same happened on the s14 using the vintage software for it).

Problem with ANY ECU on ITB's is you get some kind of trade-off. Open trumpets and you have no real way of monitoring manifold pressure since the pulses are so strong, and if you have an air box with a meter in front of it, you get gulps of air the meter won't recognize with heavy transients.

Best to use a hybrid of the two and when AE is above/below xx% it will resort to one or the other. ITB's are not simple to tune on any ECU. If you put a vacuum gauge between the valve and throttle plates, you will see what I mean - even with a vacuum manifold to all of them, you will see a rapid variation from ~6or8"-0" which give you a VERY narrow window for resolution. Same with a meter in front of an airbox, the delay is long from a snap of the throttle until the meter "sees" flow - so your VE is a guess until you nail the timing of the flow/pulses down.
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Old 12-12-2016, 11:20 PM   #25
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there is a guy around these parts running the RHD ITB on motronic with WARchip using a MAF and factory TS.
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Old 12-12-2016, 11:45 PM   #26
DesertBMW
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Originally Posted by haaken675 View Post
Did I miss something?
Yes, Brody said that he got tired of tech supporting lazy people who don't even bother to charge their laptop batteries. He would get calls like "dude I can't get my laptop to power on, is it the war chip?" Brody would reply "can you plug in power adaptor to your laptop and charge the battery?" He would get a response like "I lost the charger, what do I do now? do I return the war chip?".

He said that one month all the calls were related to issues other than the war chip.
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Old 12-12-2016, 11:53 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digger View Post
there is a guy around these parts running the RHD ITB on motronic with WARchip using a MAF and factory TS.
Yes, but that's not "Alpha-N". That's how the s14 did it too. The stock ECU with a proper chip and AFM in front of an airbox is a viable option, just don't expect it to behave sans AFM. I even tried re-routing a 0-5v TPS to the AFM inputs but the transfer function of the three AFM maps made it extremely difficult. BMW was smart back then to use it instead of a busload of values to get it all on the tiny 256k chip. It probably could be done if someone was to re-write the code mask entirely (common to do on GM ECM's).
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Old 12-13-2016, 12:29 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by ForcedFirebird View Post
Yes, but that's not "Alpha-N". That's how the s14 did it too. The stock ECU with a proper chip and AFM in front of an airbox is a viable option, just don't expect it to behave sans AFM. I even tried re-routing a 0-5v TPS to the AFM inputs but the transfer function of the three AFM maps made it extremely difficult. BMW was smart back then to use it instead of a busload of values to get it all on the tiny 256k chip. It probably could be done if someone was to re-write the code mask entirely (common to do on GM ECM's).
ofcourse not, it doesnt even use a 'proper' TPS, i just mentioned it as it pertains to the WAR chip.

these days you can get a name brand ECU for not much more than MS to so there is no excuse not to get something better than WAR if your looking to do so
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Last edited by digger; 12-13-2016 at 12:34 PM.
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