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Old 12-01-2016, 06:34 AM   #1
Kershaw
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Dies immediately after start + this + that + and that

So I have several issues I am trying to run down.

1. Get the AFRs my innovate lc2 reads to match the AFR table

2. Get it to not die after it's been running and driving around just fine. I went through the MS manual and followed the steps to get a stable idle. High 14s usually, sometimes low 15s low 14s, generally stable. It seems fine. But if I shut it off and turn it back on again, it will immediately die. If I hold the throttle to 2000rpm and keep it there for maybe a minute and let go, everything is fine.

3. During this shut off and restart event while the engine would die if the throttle isn't being held down, my AFR gauge says 7.7. Which is crazy. I tried reducing the warm up enrichment to mitigate this, but not much luck. I also couldn't figure out how to simply turn WUE off like the manual states.

4. Using tune analyze, I went from a 10 AFR running car to a 12 AFR car. But I'm still shooting for that 14... which I got once and it was great for a few days. But then it started running at 18 whenever I was at light throttle. If I put the throttle down, it'd take 2 seconds of hesitation then go to 13 and then accelerate. Obviously I wasn't happy about that and went to a restore point and then it just ran at 12 all the time, but it ran great.

Nobody I know is local to me to walk me through this, so I'm feeling a bit over my head. I'll keep at it for sure, or until I blow my motor. Lol.
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Old 12-01-2016, 07:21 AM   #2
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Maybe check the ground and connections on your oxygen sensor. My ground was corroded and caused erratic readings before stopping all together. Otherwise the oxygen sensor could be bad. If you had a good base map, maybe disable the oxygen sensor authority to 0 and see if the car runs ok without any feedback, meaning your base map is still good.

I use an AEM as I have heard people having problems with the innovate oxygen sensor
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Old 12-01-2016, 12:04 PM   #3
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Post a log and a copy of your tune....do you have a fuel pressure gague?
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Old 12-01-2016, 02:34 PM   #4
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I don't have a fuel pressure gauge.

I will double check all the connections on the o2 sensor. I installed it maybe 4 weeks ago and for 2 weeks it didn't act weird when it started up. Although the car still ran rich all the time.

I'll post up a log and a copy of the tune.
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Old 12-01-2016, 03:40 PM   #5
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I had this issue and resolved it by using the same ground (shock tower) for MS and and the Wideband.
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Old 12-01-2016, 04:06 PM   #6
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OK, that's easy enough to do. I assume the MS is already grounded to the shock tower since it's uses the OEM harness.

Definitely running rich.


Interestingly enough, I put the oem dme back in (because I get a CEL when I turn the car off and the ICV stays on, I'm talking to derek about this) and it idled ok, but the AFR gauge still read 7.6/7.7, but the exhaust smelled fine. It wasn't burning my nose or eyes or anything. Do you think it's possible that this wideband is already trashed after a few hundred miles of rich conditions?

edit:
http://phk.design/ms_e30/stable_idle.msq
Right click -> save link as. Or view it as XML, lol.

I just recalibrated the o2 sensor and when I started it up the garage immediately filled with smoke burning my eyes and nose, lol. 7.6 AFR and behind the muffler it was getting BLACK on the wall.

I took a video of it running, starting a few seconds after I turned it on.
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Old 12-01-2016, 04:28 PM   #7
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Huge possibility. I have a thread of me chasing afr problems, re-wiring a bunch and troubleshooting a lot just to have consistent AFR's and it just ended up being a bad sensor from my previous motor that drank oil.

My LC-1 shares the same sensor as a 1.8t Vw bug. Was like <$50 with unquestionable warranty.
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Old 12-01-2016, 05:18 PM   #8
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It looks like the LC-2 uses the same sensor. https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-17014-O.../dp/B000BZI4ZW I'll order one if it doesn't idle well once warm, it would seem that it's still reading accurate according to the amount of unburnt gas coming out of the exhaust.

I'm going to go take it out and see if it stables out once it's warmed up like it did yesterday. I'll record a log too.

edit:
It wouldn't idle even though it was pretty warmed up, after I ran it around the block, and I pulled back in, it idled just fine. AFRs are wack driving around though, of course. 10.8 at WOT.
http://phk.design/ms_e30/datalog_1.csv
right click -> save link as
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Old 12-01-2016, 06:15 PM   #9
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Just turbo the thing already. All this pissing around on a stock motor.
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Old 12-01-2016, 07:46 PM   #10
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18 AFR n/a is bad but bearable, 18 AFR on a turbo motor is death. All this stuff needs to be hammered smooth and finished before the turbo goes in. If I can't get it tuned n/a, I won't be able to tune it turbo. So then what's the point?
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Old 12-01-2016, 07:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
It looks like the LC-2 uses the same sensor. https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-17014-O.../dp/B000BZI4ZW I'll order one if it doesn't idle well once warm, it would seem that it's still reading accurate according to the amount of unburnt gas coming out of the exhaust.

I'm going to go take it out and see if it stables out once it's warmed up like it did yesterday. I'll record a log too.

edit:
It wouldn't idle even though it was pretty warmed up, after I ran it around the block, and I pulled back in, it idled just fine. AFRs are wack driving around though, of course. 10.8 at WOT.
http://phk.design/ms_e30/datalog_1.csv
right click -> save link as
Great. The warranty lasts 1 year, and about a week until my warranty was up I went into Oriely to get it replaced so that I could just have a fresh one as a last effort to solve my AFR issues.

Is your acceleration enrichment TPS or MAP based? I'm willing to bet there are a few issues there as well in warm up enrichment settings.

I used to have the most retarded and indecisive idle for almost a year - some days it would be near perfect, other days it would hunt, acceleration was hesitant with poor throttle response, and sometimes it would shut off if I put the clutch in and a lot of times it wouldn't stay on..
Ended up being the set screws on my TPS were super loose and disrupting signals as the engine vibrated. My idle, as soon as I tightened the screws up, was rock solid with near perfect AFR's at idle and cruising - just as it was when I left the dyno a year and a half ago.

Screen shot those parameters and I'll compare them to mine to figure something out. Idle, WUE, and accel enrichment shouldn't be that much different with my 2.7i turbo.
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Old 12-02-2016, 06:18 AM   #12
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I spliced a ground to the shock tower from the o2 sensor, didn't help with the dying after start. I think it's dying because it's so rich. It'll be idling 12 or 13 and hunting around or whatever, but then I turn off the car and it'll go right back to 7.6/7.7 for a minute or two.

I'll screenshot those parameters hopefully this afternoon.
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Old 12-02-2016, 12:48 PM   #13
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your required fuel is too high, redo the required fuel calculator
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Old 12-02-2016, 01:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ak- View Post
Great. The warranty lasts 1 year, and about a week until my warranty was up I went into Oriely to get it replaced so that I could just have a fresh one as a last effort to solve my AFR issues.

Is your acceleration enrichment TPS or MAP based? I'm willing to bet there are a few issues there as well in warm up enrichment settings.

I used to have the most retarded and indecisive idle for almost a year - some days it would be near perfect, other days it would hunt, acceleration was hesitant with poor throttle response, and sometimes it would shut off if I put the clutch in and a lot of times it wouldn't stay on..
Ended up being the set screws on my TPS were super loose and disrupting signals as the engine vibrated. My idle, as soon as I tightened the screws up, was rock solid with near perfect AFR's at idle and cruising - just as it was when I left the dyno a year and a half ago.

Screen shot those parameters and I'll compare them to mine to figure something out. Idle, WUE, and accel enrichment shouldn't be that much different with my 2.7i turbo.
You can get this sensor at Oreilley's (in stock)but they don't allow returns on electronics if the sensor isn't the problem. I was lucky cause I brought it back the same day and the guy who sold it to me let me return it, but that is not normal. Good info to know if you need a sensor in a pinch. I use the AEM and I believe the part number is Bosch 17016 instead of 17014. The connector plugged right in. The 17016 was about $100, it looks like the 17014 is cheaper.
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Old 12-03-2016, 05:08 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by 2002tiiguy View Post
your required fuel is too high, redo the required fuel calculator
Are you saying that because the injector size is 166cc? I have m50 injectors, which I was under the impression were 166cc. Is there something I need to reduce to compensate for that?
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