E30 V8 Swap dilema: M60B40 or M62B44 ?

[judgefargo]

Hello lads and thanks for accepting me in the group.

I am just about to land a nice 1989 316i Dolphin Grey Shadow Line, for I've always wanted to do a V8 swap with that exact car, but now have run into a little dilema...

I had always thought the M62 was the better option for the Swap (also has more torque which I prefer), but I keep reading a lot of people end up going for the M60, and now am not sure what to do.

I understand the M62 Swap is a tad more challenging due to electronics, but is that all? Or is there more complications down the line?

Appreciate any experienced E30 enthusiasts comments regarding this dilema. Budget is not that much of an impediment for it is one of my dreams and I want to pursue it.

Main factors are keeping it light and fun, making it work, and having good power.
Thank you all for your time, any comments as random as they may seem are more than appreciated.

Drive safe!
Jake

[jpod999]

Wiring a M60 is definitely easier since it’s OBDI. Although, I think since I started my swap two years ago tuners have cracked open the M62 DME and are able to remove EWS etc. M60 has a stronger timing system, M62 has more displacement. If money is no object, you should build an M60B44 hybrid engine- that’s kind of the best of both worlds.

[judgefargo]

Thanks for your reply mate.
Funny enough I had gone through your build thread this morning. Very nice.
I had read about the hybrid M60B44 on garagistic webpage. Think that was there option.

However I read that the alusil blocks were a great improvement to reliability, so if you update the chain often enought that would be better than the non alusil ones and reliability on an M60 no?

I think I have seen what you mean, the M62 now has quite a few conversion kits to the E30 loom done by companies now. The EWS if not mistaken only affects the TU engine.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I think more than budget, its sourcing the parts that would worry me with doing the hybrid. Im thinking of buying a banged up 740i or 540i for a lot of the parts are adaptable.

What do you all think?

Wiring a M60 is definitely easier since it’s OBDI. Although, I think since I started my swap two years ago tuners have cracked open the M62 DME and are able to remove EWS etc. M60 has a stronger timing system, M62 has more displacement. If money is no object, you should build an M60B44 hybrid engine- that’s kind of the best of both worlds.

[dmjensen]

Has anyone just replaced all of the timing components on the m62b44 with the m60b40 components? Just from looking at the m62 I have all the mounting points seem to be the same..

[judgefargo]

I think one uses 2 chains and the other only one. Wouldn't that make it impossible to do?

I'm sorry, my knowledge in the mechanical department is not to great...

Has anyone just replaced all of the timing components on the m62b44 with the m60b40 components? Just from looking at the m62 I have all the mounting points seem to be the same..

[The Dark Side of Will]

The M60 uses an idler sprocket in the V that will literally run forever because it's lubricated by pressurized oil. The M62 uses a U-shaped plastic chain guide. The plastic guide wears quickly and can cause sudden catastrophic engine failure.

[judgefargo]

I see. Thanks for that clarification.
It definitely seems more wise to use the M60 engine. I have read that there was an updated version where they started using the alusil blocks. I think I am going to look for a complete donor car with that version of engine so its simpler to do the swap.

Thank you for this valuable info. I will see if I can find the reference to the M60 update and post it.

The M60 uses an idler sprocket in the V that will literally run forever because it's lubricated by pressurized oil. The M62 uses a U-shaped plastic chain guide. The plastic guide wears quickly and can cause sudden catastrophic engine failure.

[judgefargo]

M60 versions

Here is the article from Garagistic where it helps out with which M60 to chose. Hope this info proves useful!

PICKING THE RIGHT M60 ENGINE
DIFFRENCE BETWEEN NIKASIL OR ALUSIL
Very important info regarding m60 engines: There were two types of blocks.Nikasil or Alusil engine. Nikasil engines are known to suffer damage to the cylinder bores from the excessive amounts of sulphur in the low quality fuels. Those blocks are made of Nikasil (Aluminum, Nickel and Silicone). The fuel reacted with Nickel , causing damage to the cylinder bore. If it has a Nikasil engine, get a compression check. If the results are within spec on all cylinders, chances are the engine will work since the new fuel quality has improved.The alusil m60 was BMWs awnser to the problem. When they recalled the Nikail engines, those blocks were replaced with alusils.To check what block you have there are casting numbers on the right side of the block, near the 3rd cylinder, above the coolant drain.

CASTING NUMBERS:
Nikasil M60B30 1 725 970 or 1 741 212

Nikasil M60B40 1 725 963 or 1 742 998

Alusil M60B30 1 745 871

Alusil M60B40 1 745 872

NOTE: Later M62 engines do not have any of these block issues and were all alusil!

[The Dark Side of Will]

I see. Thanks for that clarification.
It definitely seems more wise to use the M60 engine.

That's why the M60B44 frankenmotor is such a good deal... you get the bigger displacement and greater torque of the 4.4 block, but the more reliable timing drive from the earlier engine.

[judgefargo]

I figure.
Also presume this definitely sorts out the nikasil problem, for when changing the block for the 4.4 they were all alusil right?

Thank you all for your replies. Just finished agreeing the price with the owner and will have the car shipped over in the coming weeks, I'll post a few pics then!

That's why the M60B44 frankenmotor is such a good deal... you get the bigger displacement and greater torque of the 4.4 block, but the more reliable timing drive from the earlier engine.

[dougie30]

m62 obd1 is just as easy as an m60 swap, but with more power, id say no brainer

[judgefargo]

Thanks for the info, I'm looking for low mileage donor car, so I presume all engines will be in good health 100k kms (worrying about the cam chains now), under.

I have found a 740i which could do as a donor car. At this point and after reading the comments I am inclined to the m60 motor. However I think it will come down to the donor car.

Due to the amount of parts that seem to be needed to do the swap, a whole car looks to be the best way to do it rather than scouting for bits and bobs. Would you all agree?

There are quite a lot of parts to be used from a donor car if I'm not mistaken...?

m62 obd1 is just as easy as an m60 swap, but with more power, id say no brainer

[judgefargo]

3 options

Well lads, I have found 3 running donor cars that are roughly the same price (around 2500€) and have similar mileage (around 130.000kms)

Here comes the tricky part:
One is a 740i M60B40 engine (which I don't know yet if it's Nikasil or Alusil, car is a flight away from where I live FYI).
A 1997 540i with an M62B44
And an 1999 540i with an M62TUB44

I understand the M62TUB44 is the most complicated due to the VANOS and water pump so this is last option if no one convinces me otherwise.

I have been reading about the M62 OBD1 conversion needed to install this engine and I can't seem to find a write up of the process anywhere, also if there is any need to flash the ECU to get it to work, or what is the exact procedure...

I think it will be down to the M60B40 as most of you have pointed out.
Would love to know your opinion on this choice, my experience is quite limited, and now that I'm going to cough up quite a lot of cash to do this Swap I don't want to regret not going for the more desirable engine if the work difference is minimal and can be done by spending a little more time sourcing the parts.

Appreciate any help I can get, I thank you all for your comments.
E30 is now travelling from the Canary Islands towards Barcelona, will be picking her up next Tuesday!!

All the best,
Jake

[flyboyx]

which island in the canaries? my roommate from college lived on Tenerife. I had the good fortune to visit twice and once to grand canaria.

have you seen this car with your own eyes before you purchased? although it is fairly arid there, the car has been living in salt air its entire life. I sure hope there is no surprise rust.

good luck and be sure to post photos once it arrives. sounds like an exciting project you are starting.

[judgefargo]

which island in the canaries? my roommate from college lived on Tenerife. I had the good fortune to visit twice and once to grand canaria.

have you seen this car with your own eyes before you purchased? although it is fairly arid there, the car has been living in salt air its entire life. I sure hope there is no surprise rust.

good luck and be sure to post photos once it arrives. sounds like an exciting project you are starting.

Hi

The car was in Las Palmas, in the mountain area so about 40min approx. from the sea. I had a friend go and see it and he said that the body (which was the important part for me) was in perfect condition. Hence me biting the bullet and going for it even though transport and import taxes are not cheap...

Also I wanted the 316 for it is the lightest one if not mistaken. Total weight on papers is 1080kg!!! HD weight... hehe

I'll leave you all some photos when she arrives, fingers crossed its a good buy!

Drive safe,
Jake