R3VLimited Forums

Go Back   R3VLimited Forums > E30 Technical Forums > Engine & Drivetrain > Forced Induction

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-21-2017, 12:27 PM   #1
SirMaxximus
Advanced Member
 
SirMaxximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 106
MSpro vs MS3x - before I purchase!

So I'm in the process of an e30 turbo build, I'm running a vanos M50 in the car now. I'm going to be using Megasquirt, I've been doing a lot of research on it thus far but I'd love some opinions from people who have actual experience using Megasquirt on an M50/S50 engine. I have a few basic questions between the differences of different MS options before I purchase.

If I bought MS3x I'd get the assembled kit, cause lets face it, I'm lazy... but I'd still wire a harness out of an old ECU so it would plug and play. So lets break this down by cost vs. time.

MS3x: Prebuilt $650 + wiring and harnesses $110 + IAT sensor $24 + Spark Boxes (in order to run M50 coils) $180
Total: Roughly $964ish

link to: https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...-57-assembled/

MSpro plug and play: $1500 total.

Link to: https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...w-e36-m50-s50/


Questions:
With MSpro do I still need to buy spark boxes or coil drivers in order to run stock M50 coils? (I know thats a thing for MS3x)

With MSpro will I still need to put an 10k resistor on my crank sensor? (again I know its a thing on ms3x, but I'd assume since its plug and play they would have worked that out or they'd mention in on the page)

With MS3x is it easy to tune for water/meth injection? (they advertise this on the MSPRO page but I never seen it talked about with ms3x... This is something I'm planning for the future of the build so if this feature is much more simple with MSpro than thats a huge plus to me)

With MS3x would my stock MAF work just fine? I plan on running a blowthrough style system (MSpro has a built in MAP sensor that just needs a vacuum line to it, so that kind of eliminates the need for a MAF entirely... anyone running their M50 without a MAF on this system?)

Are they any other Major advantages to one over the other that I'm missing?

Do you think the Price difference is worth the lack of hassle and clean wire-free install of MSpro?
__________________

87 325es (m50tub25)
SirMaxximus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 02:59 PM   #2
Red_liner740
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 127
Other than the physical differences in wiring them up the two boxes from a tuning perspective are the same. They both use tunerstudio and the differences become on amount of inputs and outputs. Both are the latest ms3 hardware so the most capable.

I ran a basic microsquirt on my mustang using tunerstudio then switched to the efi source gold box which is another ms3 Ecu. Same tunerstudio, I was just given a Ron more options to choose from. Individual cylinder timing and fuel trimming. Etc etc

Meth is wired up similar. I used nitrous1 out to a relay. You're given a kpa vs rpm table and you enter desired pulse width. You also set tps range you want it active in.

All ms3 can run MAF but why would you? Today's MAP sensors and behind the scene calculations are so good a map car drives as good as a MAF car putting around.
Red_liner740 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2017, 08:57 AM   #3
Northern
R3VLimited
 
Northern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Halifax, N.S.
Posts: 2,935
I'll catch some flack for this, but in my mind the big draw for MS is it's price. Generic hardware/connectors, not the most robust board, not tens of thousands on R&D for the software/hardware - just Bruce Bowling and Al Grippo doing their thing.

This is how it's always been told to me, and how I've always been sold on the idea of MS. $300 for the whole shebang, and it runs 90% of what you could ever want.

Now the problem for me is when they blow completely out of that price range. Sure MS3x has a lot more I/O and features, that's great. And MS3pro expands that a little more and gives it a real case+connectors. At the end of the day, in the back of my head, it's still a megasquirt setup.

At that price point, you could just as easily go for a Link G4, or Ecumaster EMU( only $800, probably a little more for connector and stuff!) and have a "real" ECU from a company that has significant money invested into the R&D, is well reviewed among the "EFI tuner" community, and it somehow ends up being cheaper than MS.

I mean, I think megasquirt is great, but I just don't see how this jump in price is really justified at the same time that the cost the hardware itself, and competing products have dropped down.
__________________
E30VON_NS 
Quote:
Originally Posted by priapism View Post
My girl don't know shit, but she bakes a mean cupcake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shameson View Post
Usually it's best not to know how much money you have into your e30
Northern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2017, 10:11 AM   #4
Red_liner740
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 127
Ms3pro, efi source gold box etc compete with the haltechs, Holleys, etc in the "rest of the car world". There are tons of LS swapped cars running megasquirt with no issues, including mine. I think your thinking of the ms as a cheap diy board with printer connectors from a decade+ ago is clouding your judgement. My gold box has oem automotive waterproof connectors.

Costs too much assembled with harness? No problem. You still have the option of putting it together yourself. My Gold box costs $1225 with a plug and play harness. Nothing with its capability comes close to touching it. It's sad to go on diyautotune and see the plug and play stuff for the bmws cost so much more simply because of the Bmw tax.
Red_liner740 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2017, 05:52 AM   #5
SirMaxximus
Advanced Member
 
SirMaxximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 106
Thanks guys for the input above. I talked to a few guys in the FI section of other e36 forums as well.

Here's the general sum up of what I've learned, hopefully it can help any future reader as well:

1: MSPro PnP you can run all your stock coil's / crank sensors / everything. its 100% PnP.
MS3x you need coil drivers to run stock coils + resistor in the crank sensor

2: Either one don't bother running MAF. Use a MAP instead, with MSPro it comes with a 4bar MAP sensor internal in the box. If you went with the MS3x option you'd want to pick up a MAP sensor, they make a 2.5bar standard or the 4bar sensor at extra cost

3. Both can run MAF or water injection exactly the same. In fact, they both are virtually identical. the real differences will only be physically

4. GENERAL CONSENSUS most people I've talked to say that even after doing lots of MS3x installs, now that a plug and play option is available they would never do it again. The end result will be the same. but the clean install and lack of wiring and extra annoyances outweigh the cost difference 100%.

Hope that clears up anything for future readers.
__________________

87 325es (m50tub25)
SirMaxximus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2004 - 2020 R3VLimited LLC