Question: Where does our money come from?

[Fusion]

Some of you guys should watch

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2752724/?ref_=nv_sr_2

and see what Paul Volcker and Alice Rivlin think about the recent shenanigans.

[Dozyproductions]

Some of you guys should watch

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2752724/?ref_=nv_sr_2

and see what Paul Volcker and Alice Rivlin think about the recent shenanigans.

Will watch!

I tend to be in the same camp as sleeve. I've recently read 'Creature from Jekyll Island', culmination of 40 years of research, and listened to others like Eustice Mullins. <--- listened to his legal advise and won a court case for driving without a license.

Anyways, to discount something because it has a 'conspiracy' tag is ludicrous. History since its beginning has been a culmination of conspiracies, it's within human nature.

Going off of known influences of men in public office, quotes from bankers and their families accused of starting the Fed, how our money operates and the power behind it; the idea isn't as much of a farce as many would like to believe. Wouldn't psychopaths who understands human psychology not to use that for political and economic gains. This world runs on money and it's more than fair to be able to 'speculate' on the origins and purposes of the Fed. I think outright denying the possibility is being naive.


I'm a chemical engineer major but I think im going to take some finance/economics classes because this is such a crazy topic.

[Fusion]

The funny thing is (and explained in this or another documentary, can't recall) that the modern economics classes are the sole contributor to everything that is wrong with the economy in that Bernanke's (and others') policies work great on paper, but keep failing in real life.

[mrsleeve]

^
Look at Heeter Vs George in the unemployment thread its a very very good proof of point of that statement.

Heeter is doing well because he knows how this game is being played right now. I think George will do better in the long run because he knows where its going

[BraveUlysses]

If you think George is such a great investor why isn't he handling your investments for you?

[mrsleeve]

Who says we have not discussed that?? No George does not handle any of my funds currently, I have someone for that, they have been doing a great job it seems since I was 15, I see no need to change that.

[matthugie]

The funny thing is (and explained in this or another documentary, can't recall) that the modern economics classes are the sole contributor to everything that is wrong with the economy in that Bernanke's (and others') policies work great on paper, but keep failing in real life.

Classical economics is generally flawed in the assumption that all agents act rationally and are motivated in the same ways. There have been great strides in the past 5-10 years or so in the realm of behavioral economics which examines how people actually react rather than what would be "rational." This has led the most cited paper in economics to be a psychology paper by Kahneman on prospect theory, and there are some fascinating articles out on it.

That said, some of the more classical economic theories may have some bearing in the real world, but evaluating them is essentially impossible. Whether what Bernanke has done is what should have been done can't be determined unless the situation was replicated and another action taken. Are things great? No. Are they better than if another route had been taken? Maybe. Nothing will ever be perfect, you just have to use the best information possible, and in this case it's the models and theories you have on paper.

[BraveUlysses]

Who says we have not discussed that??

What a non-answer.

[mrsleeve]

What a non-answer.

Where I keep and who I use to mange some of the extra money that I have is not really any of your business, I think I have elaborated enough. To say George and I have discussed this possibility in the past.

[z31maniac]

Heeter is doing well because he knows how this game is being played right now. I think George will do better in the long run because he knows where its going

Wait, what?

So let me get this straight:

Guy A knows what is going on now, which means he won't figure it out in the figure.
Guy B doesn't know what is going on now, but will in the future.

[BraveUlysses]

Where I keep and who I use to mange some of the extra money that I have is not really any of your business, I think I have elaborated enough. To say George and I have discussed this possibility in the past.

hahaha i'm not asking you where or how you invest your money. if you're willing to use him as your appeal to authority fallacy I would think you trust him enough to handle your investments.

based on his behavior online and his bullshit in that heater thread, it's a good thing you didn't do it.

Wait, what?

So let me get this straight:

Guy A knows what is going on now, which means he won't figure it out in the figure.
Guy B doesn't know what is going on now, but will in the future.

Apparently agreeing with someone's (shitty) politics is the best way to find a financial investor.

[mrsleeve]

Wait, what?

So let me get this straight:

Guy A knows what is going on now, which means he won't figure it out in the figure.
Guy B doesn't know what is going on now, but will in the future.

Heeter is playing the game hes was taught to play, with the current ponzi structure, its great while its working, but you best not get left holding the bag. George seems to play a little more conservatively and in attempt to protect your wealth when the things go POP. Which is going to be inevitable and you know this

Thats how my funds have been managed, moderate to slow growth with more focus on security than gain. I work too hard to make my living to risk it the wall street casino on anything more than 99% sure bet

[rwh11385]

If someone is going to talk about me, at least have the decency to mention it to me in a PM or something.

Does anyone know how our money is made?

Bureau of Engraving and Printing
U.S. Department of the Treasury

http://www.moneyfactory.gov/uscurrency/theproductionprocess.html

The Production Process
How Money Is Made Today

The BEP is one of the largest currency printing operations in the world with facilities in Washington, D.C. and Fort Worth, Texas.

The Federal Reserve.

Which is a private institution. It's insane that the US doesn't print it's own money, a power granted in the constitution, but instead pays interest to the banking cartel.

Buddy, seriously? :roll:

If the US Treasury isn't the one printing its own money, I'm quite confused why they have production reports for such: http://www.moneyfactory.gov/uscurren...ionreport.html

There's free tours if people need to see it for themselves:

http://www.moneyfactory.gov/tours/washingtondctours.html

There's also a FAQ here:

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages/edu_faq_currency_production.aspx

How much paper currency does the Treasury Department print every day? Where is it printed?

During fiscal year 2007, the Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP) produced approximately 38 million notes a day with a face value of approximately $750 million.

The BEP headquarters is located in Washington, DC. There is also a Western Currency located in Fort Worth, Texas, which began operations in 1991.

matthugie - Like in other of the other heads, hit the nail on the head. Although the Treasury prints the money, the Fed controls the money supply (as does commercial banks as well as you and I). The Fed has much more influence than an individual, but they also understand the subject matter more than Joe Voter, who may or may not know who actually prints the money even. Collectively though, our actions and choices impact the money supply and demand greatly.

the Fed isn't private - it's independent. It's still a federal agency.

that means idiot politicians can't control how our currency works, which I think is a good thing.

Exactly. There were lots of political battles about going bi-metal which inspired the Wizard of Oz and would be a complete mess if those in Congress were in charge of the money supply. They do have to go and get yelled at by the crazies, but are pretty systematic in their process and use a lot of data to make decisions. Imagine if the money supply was controlled by elected officials that were controlled by lobbyists!!

Further info:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm

The Federal Reserve System fulfills its public mission as an independent entity within government. It is not "owned" by anyone and is not a private, profit-making institution.

As the nation's central bank, the Federal Reserve derives its authority from the Congress of the United States. It is considered an independent central bank because its monetary policy decisions do not have to be approved by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branches of government, it does not receive funding appropriated by the Congress, and the terms of the members of the Board of Governors span multiple presidential and congressional terms.

However, the Federal Reserve is subject to oversight by the Congress, which often reviews the Federal Reserve's activities and can alter its responsibilities by statute. Therefore, the Federal Reserve can be more accurately described as "independent within the government" rather than "independent of government."

Towards criticisms:
“Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried.” ~ Winston Churchill. Not everyone likes the fractional banking system and the Federal Reserve, whether it is some conspiracy theory about the secret purpose being to make the Illuminati rich due to the person's suffering tin foil poisoning or a desire to based an entire financial system on the supply and demand of shiny bits dug up from the ground. But, in practice, having an independent central bank managing money supply to attempt to ensure a stable financial realm while controlling inflation and yielding good employment levels works out better than free banking. Look at the Swiss, the best performing currency in the world last time I checked. Denmark too - very close hovering around 2% inflation for 20 years. Much better than the freedom of 1907. Seems a lot better than having politicians fighting over adding silver to increased money supply or having a volatile money supply that doesn't respond to market situations.


The real question is:
Anyone who is busy attacking the concept of central banks care to provide an alternative?

[Dozyproductions]

Some of you guys should watch

Watched a bit of that. Interesting that there's former Fed presidents talking ill of the system. Getting the feeling that it doesn't focus enough on the implications of how the bill was formed and by who. Whew!

The Federal Reserve was original sold as a bank to stabilize the economy with "elastic currency". It now completely control's our monetary policy and in effect it's become the most powerful institution in the world.

It's been admitted that the Federal Reserve bill was concocted at Jekyll island by the biggest names in the banking industry and their representative in congress. If we can assume that people are self interested then can't we assume that men that participating in that meeting didn't have the public's interest in mind? Problem no?

What's the Reserve's track record? It was suppose to finally fix and stabilize the economy and encourage growth after the 1907 panic. Instead panics and depressions continue and power has been consolidated even tighter to a very few whom dictate our entire monetary policy. Alan Greenspan even admitted that there is nothing they can do to prevent any of this beyond being able to pick up the pieces and history suggests such. One can question then what's the point.

With such a prevalent 'swinging door' culture between business and government, with business usually being the winner, wouldn't it be possible for it to be the sum within the Fed? It happens in congress and the white house all the time. I feel like no matter how well the numbers can look, the motivation behind the Fed's real intentions can easily be suspect.

This is a great example how conspiracy can mire with truth. If it's good or bad is up to the eye of the beholder.

[rhE-30]

Some entertaining education that is floating around on the subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGk5ioEXlIM