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    #16
    Originally posted by tjts1 View Post
    CNG bitches. Its the way of the future. We're running out of places to store it and its selling for $3.80/MMBtu
    Yes you are right to a point. The reason there is fewer places to store it, its because the storage fields are filling up thanks to winter coming to an end and the huge increase in production of NG in the northeast ( PA )

    You realize how much harder it is to store, transfer, transport, and keep NG contained, in a situation like a car dont you???? You get a fuel leak its not a drip on the ground its a highly combustiable vapor cloud with the rest of the tank under pressure. Again just like everything else, there is only about 2/3 the BTU in CNG compared to a equal Volume of traditional motor fuel so you will only get 2/3 the work outta that volume. Not to mention with it requiring a 1/3 or so more fuel to go a given distance, you will get a 1/3 more emissions as well.


    But you tree huggers are trying to stop development of 2 of largest NG fields in the world right here in the USA. NY state still has the drillers locked out by and large, and fools trying to stop it in PA.


    So no Despite what T-boone has told you on his commercials on the TV NG is not the way of the future (yet). Not saying its not suitable for some transitional uses but its not a good replacement for Gasoline either
    Last edited by mrsleeve; 03-06-2011, 06:03 AM.
    Originally posted by Fusion
    If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
    The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


    The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
    William Pitt-

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      #17
      Cutting fuel economy by 50% would be SUPER EASY if people didn't demand navigation/leather/power everything........shit there's HUNDREDS of pounds just of copper wiring in some cars now.

      The '89 CRX HF got 50mpg with old engine technology and low weight (I understand we have much tougher crash standards now which add weight). I'd like to see what Honda/Toyota/etc could do if they just tried to build one of these cars with modern technology.
      Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
      Chief Sales Officer, Midwest Division—Blunt Tech Industries

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        #18
        Originally posted by z31maniac View Post
        Cutting fuel economy by 50% would be SUPER EASY if people didn't demand navigation/leather/power everything........shit there's HUNDREDS of pounds just of copper wiring in some cars now.

        The '89 CRX HF got 50mpg with old engine technology and low weight (I understand we have much tougher crash standards now which add weight). I'd like to see what Honda/Toyota/etc could do if they just tried to build one of these cars with modern technology.

        Yeah you see you have to look to the EPA and as you alluded to the DOT. The ever increasing complex and HEAVY MANDATED safety features. They all add a fuck load of weight.

        The EPA has asininely low limits on NOx , there for combustion temps have to be lower, and to make power with those lower temps you need to burn more fuel.

        Then you have market demand, yes no one wants a 76 hp shit box anymore. Can you make much more efficient cars and still retain power? Yes YES you can, we all know that, the issue remains the legality of such things thanks to poorly (or maybe expertly) crafted governmental regulations

        Oh not to mention that crx getting 40mpg was running on 100% gas 20 years ago not the 10% ethanol blends of today, along with all the other additives mandated by particular localities (think CARB they have mandates of what has to be in your gas by county or even area of the county in CA) that is also a big factor in the decrease in efficiency in the last 10-20 years as well
        Originally posted by Fusion
        If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
        The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


        The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

        Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
        William Pitt-

        Comment


          #19
          Yeah, you're right the NOx limits prevent using the same lean-burn technology.

          I would buy a 76hp shitbox to commute with if it:
          1. Was cheap, like less than $10k, manual everything, just a stereo.
          2. Got 50+mpg
          Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
          Chief Sales Officer, Midwest Division—Blunt Tech Industries

          www.gutenparts.com
          One stop shopping for NEW, USED and EURO PARTS!

          Comment


            #20
            The Volt production launch is on schedule to build and sell every one of our 10,000 units this year. Through February, we produced over 1,800 vehicles - 925 of which have been sold at retail. Production volume will gradually increase each month throughout the year. However, over the next few months we will be shipping Volt dealer demo vehicles and vehicles to our coastal launch markets which takes longer than delivering them to nearby states. This situation should be resolved by May, after which the number of Volt's sold will rise.
            There is no demand issue; ask any dealer in a launch market. This is a temporary situation. The Volt launch is on time and on target.
            Put an end to that BS.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by z31maniac View Post
              Yeah, you're right the NOx limits prevent using the same lean-burn technology.

              I would buy a 76hp shitbox to commute with if it:
              1. Was cheap, like less than $10k, manual everything, just a stereo.
              2. Got 50+mpg
              3. comfy/very adjustable seat.

              Comment


                #22
                Through December, Nissan had produced 1,000 Leafs and currently is building them at a rate of about 2,000 per month. By the end of March, the auto maker hopes to double output to 4,000 units. At that point, every third car would be a Leaf and cumulative production of the model would reach 10,000 units.

                Nissan expects Leaf sales to total 6,000 units in Japan in fiscal 2010, ending March 31.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by NigelStu View Post
                  Its pretty much in a class by itself at the moment
                  ^He's right. Leaf doesn't have possible range / flexibility of the Volt. Prius lacks the ability to run solely on EV for short commutes.

                  Volt might make a lot of sense for my mom, who drives 2 miles to work and back. Only buys GM products. Size is about right (currently has G6). Payment is a lil steeper but Government cut options with brand ending (no caddies, probably not a Buick) and no gas used would make up for some of $$.

                  It's a creative engineering solution and provides more options than current alternatives, so hopefully it will fare well in the market.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Fusion View Post
                    I'm not an engineer, but I can't believe that there's no way to reduce fuel consumption in current engines to 50%. If I had all the money that was spent on hybrid dead-ends, I'm pretty sure I'd come up with something.
                    If you were an engineer, you'd know there is a theoretical limit of thermal efficiency for the Otto Cycle or Diesel Cycle - even if there was zero friction, heat loss, etc.

                    There are gains to not idling at a stop, etc. But a lot of the ceiling is material properties (max temp metals can see), or max compression ratio, etc.

                    Turbochargers and regenerative brakes make use of some of the waste energy in automobiles and improve efficiency. Transforming kinetic energy into frictional heat is wasteful when it could turn into electric potential. It might not seem amazing improvement but helps nonetheless. And not like hybrid tech is limited to a particular fuel type...

                    Comment


                      #25
                      From purely an MPG vs price comparison, gas will look better. Even diesel has a price premium though. Why would anyone pay north of $50k for a car with a totally normal gas engine in it that gets 30mpg or less? It's not the whole picture.

                      Pretty much nobody except DIY'ers are building electric driveline to it's true advantages of nearly zero maintenance, instant throttle response, limitless torque, etc.. It just makes more sense for a long-term commuter appliance to eliminate damn near all worries except the tires.. and it also makes sense to someone like audi to slap a motor to each wheel for ultimate electronic wheel control without some ungodly complicated transmission getting in the way. Even if all the juice came from an on-board generator.. 100% torque instantly that lays on smooth like glass will fully convert you on the first drive.

                      but if you're gonna keep it at purely a cost argument then might as well factor this in: 100k miles * $30 per oil change = $1000
                      easy 5% impact there.
                      sigpic
                      Originally posted by u3b3rg33k
                      If you ever sell that car, tell me first. I want to be the first to not be able to afford it.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        General Motors plans to add a second shift worth about 900 to 1,000 jobs to its Detroit-Hamtramck plant late this year, as the automaker prepares to ramp up production of its Chevrolet Volt extended-range electric car.
                        ...
                        GM is seeking to build more than 25,000 Volts this year, up from the original target of about 10,000, CEO Dan Akerson has said, as the automaker prepares to battle higher gas prices and make money on the Volt. Executives are debating a decision to produce 120,000 Volts annually starting next year, well above the current estimate of 45,000.


                        Jeez, it sounds like GM can't give these cars away.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          even if gas prices doubled from their current levels, it would take me about 15 years for me to break even, and I average less than 20mpg on my way to work.
                          Build thread

                          Bimmerlabs

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                            #28
                            Its funny to me how people are always quick to point out how many years it would take to 'justify' the cost of a fuel efficient vehicle but nobody ever bothers to calculate how a V8 engine will save time on your daily commute above and beyond your typical 4 banger. A hybrid or EV is an irrational luxury item just like any other $30k+ car. You could just as easily buy a used Corolla if you were genuinely trying to safe money. Some people are willing to pay a premium for idea of not purchasing gas on a weekly basis in the same way you or I might pay extra for a 400hp daily driver.

                            I'll be very impressed if GM manages to unload 120k Chevy Volts next year but I'm skeptical.

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by tjts1 View Post
                              Its funny to me how people are always quick to point out how many years it would take to 'justify' the cost of a fuel efficient vehicle but nobody ever bothers to calculate how a V8 engine will save time on your daily commute above and beyond your typical 4 banger. A hybrid or EV is an irrational luxury item just like any other $30k+ car. You could just as easily buy a used Corolla if you were genuinely trying to safe money. Some people are willing to pay a premium for idea of not purchasing gas on a weekly basis in the same way you or I might pay extra for a 400hp daily driver.

                              I'll be very impressed if GM manages to unload 120k Chevy Volts next year but I'm skeptical.
                              Dude, your logic reasoning ability is that of a young beagle. Please stop trying to argue points and pick up a book that will educate you more than posting jibberish and plots from stupid advisory firms. Like this: http://www.amazon.com/Logic-Real-Arg.../dp/0521654815

                              There is no time saved on a commute by the engine size, except for the small difference in time during acceleration. This is minuscule even if both are flooring it away from stoplights (and into other traffic rear bumpers). Speed limits remain the same between vehicles.

                              Obviously comparing nando driving a used car that is budget-wise versus a brand new EV+gas assist isn't a great break-even period... but compared to everyone buying a Malibu or Impala, a Volts makes a whole lot of sense. $32k and change after tax credit, vs. $27k+. Minimal running costs or maintenance, lil to no gas needed, cheap kwh in lots of states...

                              Eventually, gas-only vehicles are going to be a luxury. Non-hybrids / non-turbocharged ones will be a luxury, and V8s will be a memory for most at some point.

                              Car companies don't produce used cars, and plenty of people buy new ones. So your argument is moronic - people will buy cars of different segments, and more and more hybrids and EVs will make more sense. Having technology to blends the EV-only short commute with long-range capability is smart and needed alternative to leaf or small electric piggyback to a gas engine.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by tjts1 View Post
                                Its funny to me how people are always quick to point out how many years it would take to 'justify' the cost of a fuel efficient vehicle but nobody ever bothers to calculate how a V8 engine will save time on your daily commute above and beyond your typical 4 banger.
                                WTF are you talking about, if the speed limit is 40 mph, the v8 and L4 doing the same speed will get you there the same time. Please tell me you don't breed.
                                1985 BMW 325e
                                1997 BMW M3/4/5
                                2007 Chevy Silverado Crew Cab 5.3 v8

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