I keep doing stupid things...

[Fraser]

...mostly involving buying poorly thought out parts for this project mid-to-post happy hour. I bought this turbo a few months ago for very cheap after doing some quick (read: inadequate) research. This was to replace the sweet turbonetics unit I had bought for a song a few months prior during happy hour that ended up having a meter or two of shaft play.

Airesearch T04. It seems like some Honda and Nissan folks are using these with success but they must be different than the one I ended up with. The hot side on this thing is humongous.
Hopefully I can unload it to someone who desperately needs a fresh one for their John Deere.
Here it is:






I hate to beat a dead horse but should I just search out an HX35 like a ton of people are using? For all the hundreds of m20 turbo builds out there, my feeble mind can’t grasp the proper turbo to use for this application. Lots of talk about eBay turbos that actually hold up fairly well but I’m too dumb to figure out exactly which one I should be looking at.

This is a rallycross car/winter beater that won’t (probably) ever see over 10psi and needs early boost much more than overall power.
I’m getting really close to having all the pieces to get this thing going but can’t get the turbo part down.
Pic of beater for reference:



Pic of Jennifer Aniston as a thanks in advance:



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[varg]

When all is said and done the frustration of going through cheap and used turbos sucks and once I could afford it I bought a new 50 trim T3/T04E with .48a/r exhaust housing for my M42, it was good. Then that turbo got killed a year into M20 bliss by some piece of deposit the oil pump pulverized because the oil feed was pre-filter. Protip: buy a new or at least remanufactured turbo and make an adapter that feeds it oil post-filter! The previously mentioned T3/T04E with .48ar exhaust housing will spool nice and quick on a stock M20 and still give you better power potential than a regular T3. HXs are good but they're not ideal for small power low boost builds and are expensive enough in good shape these days that dropping $700 on something that spools fast and is brand new doesn't seem so bad.

[Fraser]

Thanks Varg, what you said is a confirmation for what I should already know. I'm old enough to follow the "buy it nice or buy it twice" adage, but I'm also dumb and cheap enough to always try and go for what seems like a great deal at the time. I've already wasted enough cash to be embarrassing on two different turbos at this point and the project basically hasn't even started yet!

It does sound like for this build the HX is just not going to be work the way I'd like it to.

What is the story on the td06h-20g that KAmotors is using for one of his kits? And who makes those turbos- are they quality or the same cheap stuff I would regret later?

Is there anything in the $400-$500 zone that would work for this? I assume there has to be a middle ground between the $100 ebay turbos that look like garbage and $800-$1000 new Turbonetics.

I'll get a build thread going soon for answers to my further questions as I get closer to bolting stuff together.

Cheers!

[downforce22]

If I were to do it again, this is what I would do. It sounds you are pretty early on in the build. You asked me about the oil drain, I would remove the oil pan to add one, and replace the clutch at the same time.

Also remember, it is a 325iX, so you only have the cheapo cxracing version 2 manifolds, or the good&tight manifold, or some other custom manifold.

MS2 plug and play standalone ecu
good&tight m20 manifold
tial mvr 44 mm wastegate
ebay intercooler
ebay intercooler piping
whatever bov you want (recirc or not)
32# or larger injectors
aem wideband
clutch for extra power
you will need feed and drain lines as well as intake couplers and clamps

As for turbo you need an externally gated turbo with that manifold so you are looking at three options:

Pony up and buy a nice turbo
Go for a used name brand turbo
Roll the dice on an ebay turbo.

You mentioned your goals about reliability, response and not necessarily big power. The ebay turbo could last a long time and for $200 its worth it. The difference between that and $800 for a name brand it a lot, or an hx35 is a safe bet at $3-400.

Here is a thread showing common turbo specs. It will give you an idea on turbo sizes and how much an ebay turbo could flow based on compressor and turbine wheels. Realize that the 'billet' wheels are mostly only better because the wheel is redesigned over the cast wheels of older turbos and that you get what you pay for with the newer billet wheel designs.

https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=399047

You probably don't want to go much bigger than a gt3582r/hx-35 (~60 CFM) and probably not smaller than 45 cfm or hx30/gt2871. Remember the smaller turbos can spool faster but create more heat and likelihood to detonate at similar boost levels to larger turbos which may spool a bit slower.

If I was you and on a budget, I would go with a turbo that is proven and cheap like the hx35 for $300 here https://denver.craigslist.org/pts/d/...422946333.html
Can't get much better bang for the buck. I'm running the precision 5862 on an m20b32 and it is awesome but its a $1000 turbo. Garretts are generally good too. kamotors is kinugawa turbo, I have no experience with them but its also a $900 turbo

http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/univeralt3-vband.aspx

I haven't seen any middle ground turbo, but these guys seem to have good prices on a small frame t3 turbo which may be a decent option.

http://automods.com/product_info.php?cPath=111_213_257&products_id=4736

[Fraser]

Damn I really don't want to pull the motor or pan. But you're completely right to do it and knock out the clutch while I'm at it. I guess I just figured I would do the oil drain with the motor in the car (either into the block or pan), like some have done, and pull the trans later to replace the clutch once the power exceeds its' capability. Maybe this is dumb too...

I already have:

MS2 PNP
Good&tight manifold
Turbonetics wastegate
Turbonetics BOV
Random Intercooler
Box of random intercooler/intake plumbing
44# Bosch injectors
Random downpipe
Sandwich plate for oil feed- tell me if this is dumb and I should T into oil sender instead
Turbonetics t3/4 with a ton of shaft play
Garrett T04 made for a forklift or something


I have boxes of other random crap too that I can't even remember. I've been collecting parts for this thing for ages, but it's not my number one priority remotely so things don't happen in a hurry. But I'd like to get the turbo on it sometime this spring finally.

That $300 HX35 on CL is tempting- is it reasonable to expect at least partial boost around 3k rpm or so with an HX35? After watching a couple videos with hx35s it looks like they don't necessarily spool all that late- could be fine for what I'm looking for but it sure is hard to tell without taking a ride in one.

[tschultz]

A good exhaust manifold and non restrictive exhaust system means that a slightly bigger turbo will spool up just fine. Apparently the CAT is the biggest restriction in the exhaust system post turbo, by a wide margin. And on a turbo car the exhaust post turbine is desired to be as low as possible to create maximum pressure differential.

Do some calculations to size the airflow through your engine-- then determine boost level and corresponding pressure raito than you are aiming for. Plot those on the compressor map for HX35...

I hope you know how to read one of these:



If the turbo is bigger... yeah it will take longer to come on, but it will also probably come on smoother and allow room for growth down the road.

Also living at higher elevation means for the same boost level as Sea level, you actually have a higher pressure ratio. This worked to my benefit when I run into the mountains as I actually hit more of the max efficiency island in the mountains (not to mention that the air temps drop for additional power!).

[Fraser]

Wow thanks for the great input.

The hx35 actually puts me at a pretty good spot on the map for desired boost and power levels.

I think the G&T manifold is pretty good flow-wise and I'm planning on a fairly big straight-through exhaust. No emissions here, so a cat isn't even a consideration. I might jump on that CL HX35, I just noticed it comes with the smaller exhaust housing that should help with spool some.

You guys need to come up to Salida sometime and rip around in Bimmers...

[tschultz]

Wow thanks for the great input.

You guys need to come up to Salida sometime and rip around in Bimmers...

I took my 540i down there back in early December...

I also drove through every year for the past 7 years in August with Drive4Corners... Texas Creek is one of my favorite routes!

[Fraser]

Just an update until I start a proper build thread- I ended up getting a tried and true hx35 in good shape and I think it's going to work just fine after doing some more maths.

It currently has the 16cm exhaust housing- initially I thought I'd prefer a slightly smaller one to help with early spool but the more I read it sounds like the spool only moves a couple hundred rpm or so at most. Anyone have any input regarding that? I can find a 12 cm exhaust housing for fairly cheap but I'll stick with what's on it if it works ok.

[Pootis]

Post a picture of the turbo you got. Does it say hx35 on it or is it an H1C? HX35's came with 12 and 14cm exhaust housings never 16cm. And yes if you are only running 10 lbs of boost you are going to want the smallest exhaust housing you can get

[Fraser]

I keep doing stupid things...

Post a picture of the turbo you got. Does it say hx35 on it or is it an H1C? HX35's came with 12 and 14cm exhaust housings never 16cm. And yes if you are only running 10 lbs of boost you are going to want the smallest exhaust housing you can get

Thank you! You're totally right- it's certainly an HX35W, and has a 12cm housing on it currently. I hadn't even looked. The guy I bought it from said it was a 16 and he couldn't find the 12...he was backwards I guess.



Now if only I could get the car to run on the base tune, or get my laptop to recognize the MS controller, I could really get the ball rolling!

Totally stumped, can't get TS to detect the MS- not sure if I have a bad USB-serial cable or what...

[tschultz]

FYI, my USB adapter doesn't work well in cold weather, it takes the car running for 10 minutes for it to finally 'warm up' enough to notice the connection.

Do you have any details on the Rotomaster turbo? I have one that came off my turbo kit from the 80's but has different part numbers:
Mod T04B53
P/N 104237
Compressor specs: inducer: 1.90", exducer: 2.75", so 48 trim unit

[Fraser]

Do you have any details on the Rotomaster turbo?

I don't at the moment but I'll look at it again today when I get to work. The cold side looks a lot like yours but the hot side is huge. I'll get the part numbers and details just for grins later.

Any ideas why my car won't run on the basetune SSSquid loaded onto my MS? The car runs great on the stock 153 ecu.
I'm beginning to realize the benefits of building your own MS- I bought mine pre assembled by someone I don't know and had SSSquid fix/refresh it. I'm sure it's set up great but I have no grasp on the inner workings or really where to begin to troubleshoot anything. Hmm...

I still have yet to try a fresh USB cable to try and connect, still having woes recognizing the controller in TS or just in general. I'm hoping that's the issue. If I can get it into TS then I'll try loading a fresh basemap onto it and hopefully the car will run.

Thanks all of you guys for the input! I owe you CO guys a beer or 8.

[efficient]

Is a hx30 a small turbo for a m20? Ive reaserched and can never find any info on it.

[tschultz]

Is a hx30 a small turbo for a m20? Ive reaserched and can never find any info on it.

It's a little small but may be alright if you plan to run low boost levels. It would give you boost response, but choke flow in higher rpms, limiting max power.

See here: https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...d.php?t=399047