#FAKENEWS and its effects.

[Massive Lee]

Hey Schnitz... I got one for you. ;-)

14 years ago, when all the so-called "serious" medias reported that Iraqis had weapons of mass destruction and didn't fact-checked just because it came from the White House, is that considered "Fake News", bias, or just plain bad journalism? Shouldn't journalists always check their sources and not be satisfied only by what is presented to them? Or is it that medias prefer not to rock the boat and will print whatever people want to hear ?

Are all news emanating from the government necessarily genuine or are medias being manipulated to simply become practical propaganda tools ?

Is the press, when it does its job properly, the last rempart against government oppression ?

[mrsleeve]

^

Problem with that line of thought, We knew for a fact that they had chemical and never agents.... The US govt gave them those weapons to iraq for its efforts to invade Iran, and punish the Mullahs through proxy for overthrowing the Shaw, and latter fend them off and bolster a strategic deference from Iranian counter offensives. We knew that the Iraqis (the saddam regime) had that class of weapons because the fucking receipts for them checked out of US stock piles are still in a binder form 1980 in the basement of the pentagon marked foreign aid.

Just because it happened nearly 40 years ago does not mean it didnt happen and should be forgotten about and swept under the welcome mat of history. All because its inconvenient and counter to the agenda and propaganda being fed to us now (and your current position) . Your older than I am you should at least have some recollection of the Iran/Iraq war and so on.

Yes a free press is a check on govt power, but when there are only a few news sources considered "reliable" that are all owned/controlled by a close knit group. Whos bias is more noticeable than others and some cater more to one side than another you get what we have now. Where the spin can be in who the hire to write the stuff and how its written, to what they dont cover, and what they chose and make a bigger deal than it should be to further drive an agenda into the minds or the reader/viewership.

This is nothing new...... its just with the 24 news cycle and the big money in sensational news, the rift is growing faster than it ever has before.

[Massive Lee]

... We knew that the Iraqis (the saddam regime) had that class of weapons because the fucking receipts for them checked out of US stock piles are still in a binder form 1980 in the basement of the pentagon marked foreign aid.

Were any WOMD found? Do you agree that none were found.

Throughout the world, and even at the White House, it is now agreed that it was a deliberate hoax and that Americans as well as the rest of the world was deliberately lied to.

Even Tony Blair recognized he lied, and used the false excuse of WOMD to enter that bloody war.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tony-blair-misrepresented-intelligence-on-weapons-of-mass-destruction-to-gain-approval-for-iraq-war-a6713401.html

So, was the press guilty of spreading Fake News to please the US population, and just being a propaganda tool for Washington? Should have they fact-checked?

[Wschnitz]

To be fair to the press,they were just reporting what the white house told them, and at that time it seemed fairly credible considering we didn't have a 'liar in chief' spreading his own propaganda.

It was a huge mistake of a war, pushed by people who wanted dat oil.

[Massive Lee]

To be fair to the press,they were just reporting what the white house told them...

Does the press just report what Sean Spicer tells them these days, or do they fact check ?

So, why not checking back in the days? Perhaps it would have been well worth it consulting with people of opposite opinions who knew there was no way Saddam Hussein had such weapons. Or maybe it was too convenient to spread White House propaganda... Or too "unpatriotic" to doubt the White House...

[Wschnitz]

:roll_eyes:

I see you learned well how to do media propaganda. There is more suspicion now because the current administration has a habit of lying and spreading propaganda. There was definitely skepticism back about the WMDs, but IIRC news got rebuked for questioning it.

[mrsleeve]

Were any WOMD found? Do you agree that none were found.

Throughout the world, and even at the White House, it is now agreed that it was a deliberate hoax and that Americans as well as the rest of the world was deliberately lied to.

Even Tony Blair recognized he lied, and used the false excuse of WOMD to enter that bloody war.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tony-blair-misrepresented-intelligence-on-weapons-of-mass-destruction-to-gain-approval-for-iraq-war-a6713401.html

So, was the press guilty of spreading Fake News to please the US population, and just being a propaganda tool for Washington? Should have they fact-checked?

Again knowing that we gave them that class of weapon in large amounts and IIRC Iraq also had the capability to manufacture them in house. Just because none were "found" does not mean they didnt/dont exist I think there are about 65k square miles of barren desert in Iraq ( a few thousand sq/mi smaller than your 2 smaller eastern provinces COMBINED) , thats a lot of places to bury shit, forget where you put it and little chance of anyone ever finding it

[Massive Lee]

Again knowing that we gave them that class of weapon in large amounts and IIRC Iraq also had the capability to manufacture them in house. Just because none were "found" does not mean they didnt/dont exist I think there are about 65k square miles of barren desert in Iraq ( a few thousand sq/mi smaller than your 2 smaller eastern provinces COMBINED) , thats a lot of places to bury shit, forget where you put it and little chance of anyone ever finding it

http://articles.latimes.com/2005/dec/15/nation/na-bush15

December 2005

"It is true that much of the intelligence turned out to be wrong," Bush told a group of political leaders and scholars at the nonpartisan Woodrow Wilson Center. "As president, I'm responsible for the decision to go into Iraq, and I'm also responsible for fixing what went wrong by reforming our intelligence capabilities."

"After the invasion, U.S. forces never found the weapons of mass destruction that the Bush administration had cited as a primary justification for removing Saddam Hussein from power."


Ironically, everyone outside of the US knew that it was a false pretentions and that it was another colonialist war to grab resources from an ex-"partner in crime". And any first year scholar in Middle Eastern affairs knew very well what shit would happen once the fragile balance of power in Iraq is disrupted. Everyone but the Pentagone and the White House. The press didn't report anything contrary to the official message.

And I remember clearly the Dixie Chicks being boooed off the stage for opposing this invasion. They didn't have much support from the press which kept on the propagating White House Fake News. ;-)

[Wschnitz]

Can we not get the thread derails guys?

Really tho. Sleeve. The argument that we gave them WMDs is so poorly sourced I find it hard to believe, even now the only pages I find that say we did so are DailyMail and wordpress blogs.

I have no doubt we supported them against Iran, but the whole WMD thing was a tinfoil hat meme to go to war in Iraq for the resources and to get a more 'Friendly' government in place that would give us what we want after Saddam decided he wouldn't.

Back to examples of FakeNews Please.

[Wschnitz]

http://www.breitbart.com/california/2017/02/09/climate-skeptic-willie-soon-addresses-packed-audience-l/

This is a pretty good example. "Packed Audience of 100" for small meeting with an AFA group.

Brietbart author spells name of speaker wrong, along with many other words.

Apparently the speech has no substance at all, is just Willie making jokes about climate change while giving no evidence on how its all wrong.

The guys own peers and employers have refuted his views many times in the past.

Its pretty obvious the speaker is doing it for the money, If you were a real skeptic trying to change peoples views about 'The reality behind climate science' You don't speak to a group of 100 die hard anti-climate science people. They will just nod and agree.

This is an example of BNN trying to spread a view with just the headline. The article has no substance, no sources, etc. Its just there to spread the narrative that a large number of people don't believe in climate change and that its fake.

[mrsleeve]

Its a 100% documented FACT that Iraq not only had but USED Chemical and Nerve agents in the Iran/Iraq war. Ok let say for a min that they were all made "in house" and the US didnt supply them. Iraq had the backing of other gulf states, so they had the cash to buy advances weapons systems as well.

FFS is the history channel good enough. And considering Mustard gas is one of the most stock plied chemical agents on the planet to the tune of hundreds of thousands of tons world wide. Was one of the most prolficate agents used by the Iraqis in those 8 years. Why would it not stand to reason they still had/have some stashed someplace like almost every other nation..... Just because we didnt "find" the hole in the desert where some is stashed does not mean its not out there

http://www.history.com/topics/iran-iraq-war

Started by Iraq dictator Saddam Hussein in September 1980, the war was marked by indiscriminate ballistic-missile attacks, extensive use of chemical weapons

[Wschnitz]

No I agree that they were used, I just think that it was a bogus reason to invade a country, and that the evidence that was given was incredibly mediocre.

[decay]

Just because none were "found" does not mean they didnt/dont exist

the Marines i attached to made gallows-humor jokes about "finally finding the WMDs" when we were digging with a ditch-witch and hit an underground bunker.

just so you know what those of us who were there think...

[mrsleeve]

No I understand your points. But the Iraqi desert is really fucking big and holds a lot of secrets from all points in history (not just mustard gas drums) many of which are likely lost to the ages for ever. To think other wise form a regime that used such things with impunity is bit short sighted I think. Its kinda like ionizing radiation, just because you cant see it, touch it, smell it, taste it, or hear it, does not mean its not there.

[decay]

still not a worthy justification for invasion- there "might be" NBC weapons in *lots* of countries, and we know this, because we sold lots of them, including to iraq.

the real reason we went in is to threaten iran with the prospect of a two-front war; since we'd have facilities to project force from in both iraq and afg.

the point here: #fakenews has been going on for a long time