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New to E30 325is What OIL?

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    #16
    15w 40 delvac in the ETA, mahle filter
    20w 50 Amsoil severe racing in the IX, Cannon filter.

    I was up above it, Now I'm down in it ~ Entropy - A Build thread.
    @Zakspeed_US

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      #17
      Mystikal, with all due respect, the manual was printed in 1985. Any modern oil - including OLIVE OIL from Bertolli - is better than a 30-point-spread oil from the mid-80s from any quantifiable point of view. And the general tendency towards thinner oil for better cold-start lubrication has been substantiated fairly thoroughly in recent years, so what was 'valid information' 20 years ago may not be correct in 2008. I'd also maintain that putting non-synthetic oil in cars in 2008 doesn't make a tremendous amount of sense, incidentally, nor does changing oil every 1500 miles, but that's me being European, probably.
      Of course, there's a fairly big proviso to be made, that is, if the engine is relying on thicker oil to maintain compression up, you will experience 'problems' with thinner oils - at the very least increased oil consuption and very probably lowered compression/increased leakdown. But it's not a problem with the oil, it's a problem with the rings and valve guides (in this regard, FIAT AUTO made an oil which worked miracles in 'higher mileage' cars, called HPX, but it was a bandaid, not a solution).

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        #18
        My logic here, so be warned.

        If a thinner oil was great for all motors today, then every manufacturer would be running a 0W-40 or similar. But they don't. We see even within the BMW camp different oil designations for different motors, because of variances in tolerances, passageways, heat tolerance, etc. What is the modern S54 oil now, 10W-60? Pretty far cry from the 5W-40 in M5x variants. The fact is motors are very different, and all require specific oil grades.

        In the case of the M20, yes, a 20W-50 would be horrendous to use in anything but summer weather. This is where the 10W-40 comes in. Yes a modern synthetic can spread across both of these points successfully, but the synthetic vs. non-synthetic debate is for a whole other thread. My small blurb on that will be that it doesn't make sense doing $40-50 oil changes on motors that can barely be given away for free. They were designed with non-synthetic oils in them, and will go 500k on that same stuff. I am by no means a cheap person, but I do know when I'm throwing away money (I ran 5W-50 and 15W-50 synthetic in the car for a couple years).

        So, in the end, I come to what BMW said to put in the car. It's pretty difficult to go wrong with that, I'd say.

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          #19
          Jay,
          I am not disputing your logic and I'm glad we concur that 20W50 would, perhaps, not be the best choice, although I will offer that most manufacturers today recommend 5W30ish oils and I will also offer that they won't go thinner because any higher spread would negatively impact the quality of the oil and any thinner oil would increase consumption, which becomes an issue (or at least a perception issue) with today's oil change intervals (as a matter of fact, at least in europe, where 30k km oil changes have become the norm on new cars, you get the 'long life' 5W30 oils with all sorts of additives - even in turbodiesels).
          With that said, I come back to what I was saying: BMW recommended 10W40 in 198x. The 30 point spread oils from back then were awful. If mineral 30 point spread oils from back then were fine, I don't see why it would be a bad idea to use a modern 5W30 which will offer lower initial/cold-start wear but still have better filming/shearing capabilities than any 10W40 from 1987.
          This is not incompatible with what BMW said: it's precisely what they said, updated to the fact that a modern formula 5W30 (or even 0W30, in the new Mobil1) works differently from what was available back then.
          A final note I'd like to add: while it's true that at this point M20s are, basically, worthless, the cars they're in are not: if I ask my mechanic to replace an engine for me, it'll run $600-800 on a good day, even with a free replacement long block. So I'll keep doing my $50 oil changes every 5000 mi :) - and thank God that I don't have to use the Castrol TWS that the M3 needs, which makes an oil change more of a $100 experience.
          Last edited by nmlss2006; 05-24-2008, 08:27 AM. Reason: Clarified

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            #20
            I've always used 20w-50 in my E36's and E30's. Napa oil seems to work fine as its the same as Valvoline... and cheap... Although Mann filters seem to hold out better than Napa filters. Hooray for $10 oil change. :)
            Last edited by Andrew325is; 05-24-2008, 09:25 AM.
            Plug and Play Wiring Harness Adapters for S54, S50, M54 and more.

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              #21
              Find Rotella T synthetic 5w40 in the gallon jug for $16 or less at most places. With the diesel rating you can change it out every 7500-10000 miles unless your engine has massive blowby issues. Check out BITOG.
              Last edited by tjts1; 05-24-2008, 11:04 AM.

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                #22
                double post

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                  #23
                  Trust me on this.

                  M20 engine, 20w50 oil (15w50 is usable).

                  all DOHC engines pre 95 10w *

                  Post 95 5w *

                  post 98 5w * synthetic required

                  Synthetic oils are better in every way than mineral the only drawback is cost.

                  I use Mobil 1

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                    #24


                    20w50

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                      #25
                      Just to clarify, the first number is a rating of what temperature the oil was cold tested at. A 0W oil is tested at -35°C, a 5W at -30°C and a 10W is tested at -25°C. The second number in oil specs is the viscosity of the oil at 100º C. The W stand for WINTER, NOT WEIGHT.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by NitroRustlerDriver View Post
                        Just to clarify, the first number is a rating of what temperature the oil was cold tested at. A 0W oil is tested at -35°C, a 5W at -30°C and a 10W is tested at -25°C. The second number in oil specs is the viscosity of the oil at 100º C. The W stand for WINTER, NOT WEIGHT.
                        Yes the W stands for "winter"
                        But No, The first number is the weight.

                        On an interesting note "0" is the same viscosity as water.

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                          #27
                          DCColegrove, I might even trust your experience, but 20W oil on a cold winter morning is going to do WONDERS for engine wear, be it an M20 or a Jag 2.4/3.4 DOHC from the 1940s (where I run the HPX I mentioned a few posts ago).
                          Given that a modern 5W30 synthetic (API SM / ACEA A3/A5) has better shear resistence than any oils that were out in the 1980s, possibly excluding the fabled bardahl -60s (the only oils that could keep the Delta Integrale engines running for more than 500 miles at a time) I'd really like to understand what benefit is to be gained by running a 20W50 oil in an engine such as the M20, which doesn't have a particularly difficult temperature profile, unless you're on the track.
                          I also don't quite understand where the tolerances on an M20 would be THAT much different from an M50 - and how an M50 would be different from an M52. I'd love to learn though :).

                          For reference IRT engine oils: http://micapeak.com/info/oiled.html .

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by NitroRustlerDriver View Post
                            Just to clarify, the first number is a rating of what temperature the oil was cold tested at. A 0W oil is tested at -35°C, a 5W at -30°C and a 10W is tested at -25°C. The second number in oil specs is the viscosity of the oil at 100º C. The W stand for WINTER, NOT WEIGHT.
                            no

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                              #29
                              i use 5W30. mobile 1.
                              Originally posted by e30e
                              lose the old man bmwcca badge.

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by nmlss2006 View Post
                                DCColegrove, I might even trust your experience, but 20W oil on a cold winter morning is going to do WONDERS for engine wear, be it an M20 or a Jag 2.4/3.4 DOHC from the 1940s (where I run the HPX I mentioned a few posts ago).
                                Given that a modern 5W30 synthetic (API SM / ACEA A3/A5) has better shear resistence than any oils that were out in the 1980s, possibly excluding the fabled bardahl -60s (the only oils that could keep the Delta Integrale engines running for more than 500 miles at a time) I'd really like to understand what benefit is to be gained by running a 20W50 oil in an engine such as the M20, which doesn't have a particularly difficult temperature profile, unless you're on the track.
                                I also don't quite understand where the tolerances on an M20 would be THAT much different from an M50 - and how an M50 would be different from an M52. I'd love to learn though :).

                                For reference IRT engine oils: http://micapeak.com/info/oiled.html .
                                The problem with running thinner oils in the m20 is mostly with the design of the valve train, the thinner modern oils, though more stable in shear, do not offer the same hydrodynamic lubrication properties.

                                The later engines with cam on bucket HVAs are very different, and the tolerances are getting tighter.

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