The Welding Thread

[haggardfab]

I assume your calling me out................ I are X-RAY hand, I run the welder unemployment truck, and hold LvL II certs in more shit than I care to think about. I know what I am talking about I follow you guys around for a living and look THROUGH what you do, a pretty cap does not fool me.

Yup gas shielding with little to no wind protection when out in the elements will make a weld, but will bust almost any type of code work I have ever dealt with..... Yes there is a lot of outdoor MIG in production work with boilermakers and girder jockeys normally its when there is a lot of structure up to protect them from the elements. To be fair I dont do all that much B&T work, though I have done work for everything from water towers to shit going to nuke plants for outages, and over the road high pressure transport tanks for caustic gases on the roads of the EU built in SE PA.

I generally chase the oil and gas guys, but even their automatic GMAW set ups are in shacks or they are so full of Porosity that they will barley hold shelled corn. Not to mention those rigs have had to have their own adapted code written for Auto GMAW because it leaves so much IFD (Inner pass Lack of fusion due to cold lap) and UT lights up big time on that. Ornamental work is one thing where make it stick will work who gives a fuck about what else might be in there but not anything I do.

I have busted out 38 of 56 main line welds made with SMAW when the wind was about 12-15mph and the welders were to lazy to put up a wind break for Porosity. Which sucks for me becuase I have to go back and check repairs too. Code says 1/8th inch or 25% of wall thickness..... on .375 wall you get just shy of a 3/32ds to play with.. So dont tell me your just fine welding with gas unless its gale force. Me thinks you have not had to work to a code with a lot of oversight, if at all its about 5 % spot checks and have NDE go around till they get what is need to pass the job over all and toss the rest

I agree SMAW for a new guy on a car sheet metal is going to be disastrous. Yeah a little slag or a bug hole here and there for the average hobbyists and home repair is not going to be that big of a deal, that said, those things will have a affect on both the strength and overall quality of the weldment made. If its at all anything structural like say a frame repair or anything of that sort that fails and causes an accident..............

i wasnt trying to insult you, your just talking about two COMPLETELY different types of work, industrial work can be in NO way even remotely related to anything on a car except for the fact that they are both "welding"
At my shop ive never run over .030 solid core wire.. at work the smallest we have is .045.. its two completely different animals

realistically there is nothing on an e30 that should be stick welded..

your comparing things that hold buildings together with 5/16"+ welds to something that the thickest part of is probably 16g thick..

btw i work in a shop not on the road and alot of our stuff get UT.. and ive yet to see anything from our shop fail.. you apparently just work with shitty people

[ccsdo5]

I want to know more about welds - not necessarily for welding stuff together, but because it would help me be better at my job. I have the feeling that my peers mostly just call out standard fillet welds without really understanding what it means. I haven't welded since high school - I don't think they even taught welding symbols or techniques, they just gave us equipment and scrap steel and we did trial and error.

sleeve, I'm guessing haggardfab is dealing with a lot smaller stuff than you or I would and probably not industrial welding. I mean, small to me is 3/8" plate. it's just a different world. We don't know what he works on either so maybe they don't do NDE. Everything I do is highly seismic so NDE is absolutely required.. I think we have 100% UT on the most significant structures.

I have an opportunity to visit a shop that can roll 10' wide plates - they're fabricating a large part of our structure. I don't know how thick they can go up to, but ours go up to 3". That should be cool. Hopefully they let me take pictures. Some of those welds are going to be insane. They will have to stand inside the tubes to weld parts of it together, fortunately they're 5' diameter. Oh yeah, it's like 2 million pounds of steel. :)

we have Piles being fabricated in China. Nobody is very comfortable with it, except the client because they are cheap. They sent us weld certs for review, but it's from fucking China.. how do we know any of it is real? We also don't know how they can get the steel quality to where we need since they don't recycle steel in China like we do (recycled steel is stronger than steel made from raw materials). They're going to have to pay somebody to go there and monitor fabrication. I don't know how much cheaper it is but the industry here is complaining about dumping and I bet they're right.

Honestly I don't know a whole lot about welding, I can say a lot of it seems to be just practice and patience. But truthfully most people don't know anything about welding. I've been working in a steel shop for a few weeks now, it's for theater stuff so it is mostly pipes and what not but welding is required for some jobs. The steel shop manager is able to MIG weld, I'm probably just as good as him which isn't saying much... I showed him some pictures of some of the things I TIG welded just practicing and he had no idea wtf TIG welding is. He doesn't know what stick welding is either all he knows is I use this machine to weld with at the shop...

Now my friends dad used to be a union iron worker and he taught us how to stick weld on one of his logging trucks since he now owns a tree company. Stick welding is cool af and I guess for more industrial uses over a MIG/TIG machine. He was one of the workers who built IBM up in Somers, NY which is where I live and all the steel work to that place is amazing. This is the only picture I can find of it.



Please post pictures of that shop if you can I would really wanna see that it seems pretty neat. And as for the Chinese steel I would be worried of it too. Everything we use / make in the shop I am at is USA stuff. The standards for materials in China I would guess is nothing compared to what they are compared to domestic steel. (if they even have standards). I would think there is dumping involved, and personally I try to buy and use USA stuff over anything else tools especially.

Since I'm still in college I hope to take a strengths of material course, I figured that be really cool.

[mrsleeve]

i wasnt trying to insult you, your just talking about two COMPLETELY different types of work, industrial work can be in NO way even remotely related to anything on a car except for the fact that they are both "welding"
At my shop ive never run over .030 solid core wire.. at work the smallest we have is .045.. its two completely different animals

realistically there is nothing on an e30 that should be stick welded..

your comparing things that hold buildings together with 5/16"+ welds to something that the thickest part of is probably 16g thick..

btw i work in a shop not on the road and alot of our stuff get UT.. and ive yet to see anything from our shop fail.. you apparently just work with shitty people

Ahhh standard welder attitude, I should be so surprised. LOL If you have been welding in a professional capacity for more than a little while you have had Repairs, and so has your shop. What is required to be done about those repairs once reported depends on what code your welding too, end use, and what your customers deems acceptable, this of course assumes they were discovered in the 1st place. You did say you were an iron worker so I figured you were building water towers, stitching girders together, or building wind mill main towers, etc...

One of the best fab shops I have ever worked with averages about 4 repairs per 1000 welds for the oil and gas industry. I have worked entire field jobs with less 1% repair rates for 5500+ wleds made, I have set on hot taps with with guys welding on a 30" pipe with 825psi on it and 1100 CF of gas a sec flowing by. I work with all gametes of welders form the very best in the business to the very bottom of the barrel some jobs just depends on the luck of the draw.

I know A LOT about the industry as a whole and worked around many facets of it, not just what goes on inside the walls of "my shop" building window frames, though to be fair I do specialize in the Oil and gas industry as thats where the money is ;)

And no we are talking about the same thing, I was making a point that welding out in the elements with out shielding the work area from the prevailing breezes, even when using a METHOD known to be much more resistant to suffering quality problems in such conditions will succumb to those same issues due to the elements as well. I went on to say he should just GMAW the job with taking proper precautions.

Nando Chinese production is scary even with US hired customer oversight, we have seen some odd ball shit in the last 5-10 years. I will look though some of the reference material I have here at the house and see if I can point you in a direction to look into for "learnin" and shoot you some links for general perusal. IIRC most of your stuff is Structural, with piping as secondary feature right..... I would venture to say a lot of your very thick welds in the shop will if possible be done via Sub-Arc kinda neat if you have never been around it.

[IronFreak]

Now that we have established.......whatever you guys were trying to establish - how about we get back on track and talk about, offer opinions and share information on the OP suggestions without getting into a dick swinging contest.

New Topic - Welding Hoods

I have been welding for quite awhile in industry, (heavy/med/light structural) and have never had an issue with my Fibre Metal pipeliner or my trusty $36 HSL100 Jaxkson hood. I have been getting into more and more tig, (literally have turned my mig on twice in the last 7 months). I have never been a huge fan of autodark, mainly because 8-9 years ago they were garbage, not very affordable and super heavy on the head.

Now there seem to be some really decent hoods out there that won't break the bank. Right now I'm either thinking the Brand new 3M Speedglas SL or the Jackson Balder auto dark hoods.

Main reason I want an autodark hood with tig is I weld all over the amp dial. #10 shade is great for dropping dimes on aluminum at 175 amps......not so great when I'm creeping around some sch10 on a manifold at sub 110 amps. Also, with some precision welds having to drop the hood while holding the torch, filler and whatever you're about to tack is a giant PITA.

discuss!

[nando]

Nando Chinese production is scary even with US hired customer oversight, we have seen some odd ball shit in the last 5-10 years. I will look though some of the reference material I have here at the house and see if I can point you in a direction to look into for "learnin" and shoot you some links for general perusal. IIRC most of your stuff is Structural, with piping as secondary feature right..... I would venture to say a lot of your very thick welds in the shop will if possible be done via Sub-Arc kinda neat if you have never been around it.

it all has to be tested, so if it's not up to our specifications, it will have to be rejected. fortunately for us, that risk is on the construction contractor, not our company. They're not exactly a small company so maybe they've used this place before, I don't know - it would really suck for the project if they get rejected and have to be refabricated somewhere else!

yeah, most of what I do is structural. we have a large piping department though.

[marshallnoise]

After some more consideration and the concerns expressed regarding frame work and slag inclusions, I am going to pony up the dough for an inexpensive tig setup.

[rturbo 930]

I'm not really experienced with welding but it's my understanding (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that MIG is best for body work. I'm thinking you should set it up with gas, and get something like this to work in and keep the wind out:



Since you're doing work on structural components, it might be a good idea to take a welding class first. That's not an area you want to be learning to weld on.

[red2.4srt]

Now that we have established.......whatever you guys were trying to establish - how about we get back on track and talk about, offer opinions and share information on the OP suggestions without getting into a dick swinging contest.

New Topic - Welding Hoods

I have been welding for quite awhile in industry, (heavy/med/light structural) and have never had an issue with my Fibre Metal pipeliner or my trusty $36 HSL100 Jaxkson hood. I have been getting into more and more tig, (literally have turned my mig on twice in the last 7 months). I have never been a huge fan of autodark, mainly because 8-9 years ago they were garbage, not very affordable and super heavy on the head.

Now there seem to be some really decent hoods out there that won't break the bank. Right now I'm either thinking the Brand new 3M Speedglas SL or the Jackson Balder auto dark hoods.

Main reason I want an autodark hood with tig is I weld all over the amp dial. #10 shade is great for dropping dimes on aluminum at 175 amps......not so great when I'm creeping around some sch10 on a manifold at sub 110 amps. Also, with some precision welds having to drop the hood while holding the torch, filler and whatever you're about to tack is a giant PITA.

discuss!

In all honesty, Lincoln is producing a very formidable Auto Darkening hood these days and the pricing is blowing 3m/Jackson/Miller out of the water. I work for Airgas in Central Pa and i've been selling these like crazy. Had the opportunity to test both the Speedglas and the Lincoln and i'd honestly pick the Lincoln any day of the week. Don't get me wrong, the Speedglas is awesome, I just can't justify the price when comparing.

[IronFreak]

I'm not really experienced with welding but it's my understanding (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that MIG is best for body work. I'm thinking you should set it up with gas, and get something like this to work in and keep the wind out:



Since you're doing work on structural components, it might be a good idea to take a welding class first. That's not an area you want to be learning to weld on.

Arguable. Id say for someone that is just learning yes. I'd look into using a silicon bronze filler with a straight argon shielding gas. Not a structural filler, but for panel work its great because it doesn't skrink/pull like your other fillers. skilled welders will tig all the things, DC- or technical term DCEN keeps heat dispersion at a minimum eliminating a lot of metal distortion that you get with a mig welder (also using a silicon bronze filler).

Solution, smaller passes with a mig.

Random side note about silicon bronze, body guys like it because body filler will stick to it.

Sincerely,

Guy that hates doing body work

[IronFreak]

In all honesty, Lincoln is producing a very formidable Auto Darkening hood these days and the pricing is blowing 3m/Jackson/Miller out of the water. I work for Airgas in Central Pa and i've been selling these like crazy. Had the opportunity to test both the Speedglas and the Lincoln and i'd honestly pick the Lincoln any day of the week. Don't get me wrong, the Speedglas is awesome, I just can't justify the price when comparing.

Can you share the part and model with me? I'd really like to look into that.

Former Omaha Airgas employee-

[red2.4srt]

Can you share the part and model with me? I'd really like to look into that.

Former Omaha Airgas employee-

You have a PM!

I always was a fan of the Miller hoods until Lincoln upped their game with the Viking series, it hasn't been a contest since.

You got out while the getting was good, eh?! LOL

[IronFreak]

You have a PM!

I always was a fan of the Miller hoods until Lincoln upped their game with the Viking series, it hasn't been a contest since.

You got out while the getting was good, eh?! LOL

It was many years ago, 10 or so I'd think. Jumped into weld, made a lot more money hahaha! Got your PM, I have a buddy that picked up the 3350 mojo. I'll see if I can try that out. 4 sensors are nice, comparable to the speedglas in that respect.

[red2.4srt]

It was many years ago, 10 or so I'd think. Jumped into weld, made a lot more money hahaha! Got your PM, I have a buddy that picked up the 3350 mojo. I'll see if I can try that out. 4 sensors are nice, comparable to the speedglas in that respect.

I went the other way, unfortunately! Structural steel welder by trade, laid off, yada yada... This job can be fun, but very stressful at the same time.

I get to tinker around with welding every so often, need my own shop to do so though.

Speaking of Lincolns, have you seen the Power MIG 210MP yet? Multivoltage input 115/230V, MIG/DC TIG/DC Stick machine, 210A output and a 3 year warranty. Base is around 999$ without the TIG package, w/TIG is around 1500$ IIRC? Only downfall is no AC High Frequency, so no Alum... Does take a spoolgun though.

[IronFreak]

I went the other way, unfortunately! Structural steel welder by trade, laid off, yada yada... This job can be fun, but very stressful at the same time.

I get to tinker around with welding every so often, need my own shop to do so though.

Speaking of Lincolns, have you seen the Power MIG 210MP yet? Multivoltage input 115/230V, MIG/DC TIG/DC Stick machine, 210A output and a 3 year warranty. Base is around 999$ without the TIG package, w/TIG is around 1500$ IIRC? Only downfall is no AC High Frequency, so no Alum... Does take a spoolgun though.

No I run an Lincoln 175 squarewave. I like it because it has a decent amount of juice for aluminum. Suck because no AC balance control. It's been a great rig so far for what I do. I also have a Millermatic 135 for mig, nice little unit for small repairs.

I'd like to get into a tig rig with more options but I have a few other pieces of equipment to purchase before I do that.

[red2.4srt]

No I run an Lincoln 175 squarewave. I like it because it has a decent amount of juice for aluminum. Suck because no AC balance control. It's been a great rig so far for what I do. I also have a Millermatic 135 for mig, nice little unit for small repairs.

I'd like to get into a tig rig with more options but I have a few other pieces of equipment to purchase before I do that.

Those squarewaves are like an old baseball glove, they do exactly what they're meant to do and very very well. I have a few customers who'll never upgrade because they're so used to what they have.

We had a Tech School drop off a Millermatic 150 2 years before I even started there and it was still sitting there after I started. I asked my boss what was the deal with it and he said they didn't pay the bench charge for it, so it sat unclaimed. He said it needed fixed and I could have it if I wanted it, so I snatched it up, had it tested and it only needed a new gun... So I have a perfectly working 230v MIG for around 90.00 bucks?! Still no shop to use it in though.... Fixed my DD Camry very nicely when I found the back end of a Mazda Tribute. LOL