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My first engine swap - M30b35 into 89' 320i build thread

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    #31
    Originally posted by lukeADE335i View Post
    Quick question Simmie (with reference to my reply to your wiring question in my thread) - are you going to use the engine harness from the M20, or the M30?

    I used the 320i harness in my swap so that it was virtually plug and play - so my advice on wrapping and re-wrapping were if using the M20 harness. You can use the M30 harness, but there are a few issues - from memory, mostly to do with grounding the relays correctly. This might be explained in Frank's guide?

    Ultimately re-routing the M20 harness is easier than adapting the M30 harness, but either is doable without too many problems.
    Great reply you put in your thread. But, I already have the M30 loom all plugged in and an ECU hooked up so I would rather use the E34's loom if possible although I still have the M20 loom attached to the old engine and I could use it if needed

    I'll quote what FrankM says about the M30 loom in the swap guide below

    "If your E32 came from an automatic transmission car, then you might want to consider option 2. If not, then you will have to wire and bypass the automatic transmission park. My E32 came from an automatic car. I tried fervently to wire it up, then gave up and simply went to option 2. If you must, then good luck. The E32 engine that I bought has 2 plugs. I tried to take the regular ECU from the M30 engine (ECU 0 261 200 179), and put it on. On the C-101 plug (by the fuse box on firewall), there is a round engine plug. Take the harness from my E32 engine and plug it directly in. That should send gauge signals and ignition stuff through. All in all, it wasn’t a direct plug-in and I couldn’t figure out which wire went where. Take a look at what it looked like trying to find the automatic park"


    Sounds like he just couldn't figure out the C101 plug although maybe it was more about the starter relay/wiring. He then just went on to use a manual 325i loom.

    Comment


      #32
      Sounds like he couldn't work out how to bypass the starter relay, but you do this on all auto to manual swaps (independent of the engine that is up front). There must be more to it?

      I guess the first thing to do if everything plugs in is to get it turning over.

      If BMWForums.com.au was still alive, the user JamJars over there completed his swap with the M30 loom successfully. There was some issue he had to sort by earthing / jumping the relays, but I can't remember the details off the top of my head. Some good info for us RHD guys has been lost from that forum.

      No doubt someone here will have some advice! :D
      My e30: OEM+ with M30B35

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by lukeADE335i View Post
        Sounds like he couldn't work out how to bypass the starter relay, but you do this on all auto to manual swaps (independent of the engine that is up front). There must be more to it?

        I guess the first thing to do if everything plugs in is to get it turning over.

        If BMWForums.com.au was still alive, the user JamJars over there completed his swap with the M30 loom successfully. There was some issue he had to sort by earthing / jumping the relays, but I can't remember the details off the top of my head. Some good info for us RHD guys has been lost from that forum.

        No doubt someone here will have some advice! :D
        Yeah, this stuff can be hard when so much of the information floating around doesn't directly apply to RHD cars. I̶'̶v̶e̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶d̶ ̶a̶b̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶j̶u̶m̶p̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶r̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶r̶e̶l̶a̶y̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶y̶p̶a̶s̶s̶ ̶i̶t̶.̶ ̶M̶a̶y̶b̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶w̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶J̶a̶m̶J̶a̶r̶s̶ ̶d̶i̶d̶?̶ ̶:̶d̶o̶n̶t̶k̶n̶o̶w̶:̶ ̶ ̶ ̶I̶'̶v̶e̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶d̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶e̶a̶d̶ ̶(̶[̶u̶r̶l̶]̶h̶t̶t̶p̶s̶:̶/̶/̶w̶w̶w̶.̶b̶i̶m̶m̶e̶r̶f̶o̶r̶u̶m̶s̶.̶c̶o̶m̶/̶f̶o̶r̶u̶m̶/̶s̶h̶o̶w̶t̶h̶r̶e̶a̶d̶.̶p̶h̶p̶?̶1̶2̶1̶5̶5̶4̶3̶-̶s̶t̶a̶r̶t̶e̶r̶-̶r̶e̶l̶a̶y̶[̶/̶u̶r̶l̶]̶)̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶r̶e̶'̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶r̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶r̶e̶l̶a̶y̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶b̶o̶x̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶r̶e̶ ̶O̶B̶D̶2̶ ̶E̶3̶4̶'̶s̶ ̶I̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶n̶k̶.̶ ̶W̶h̶i̶c̶h̶ ̶(̶u̶n̶l̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶i̶'̶m̶ ̶m̶i̶s̶t̶a̶k̶e̶n̶)̶ ̶w̶e̶ ̶d̶o̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶E̶3̶0̶'̶s̶.̶ ̶N̶o̶t̶ ̶s̶u̶r̶e̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶m̶a̶k̶e̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶d̶i̶f̶f̶e̶r̶e̶n̶c̶e̶

        EDIT: I didn't find a starter relay in the M30's loom. I just wired the starter motor straight to the C200 plug under the steering column as shown later in the thread which allows the car to crank over without needing a positive signal from the wiring to say the car is in park/neutral or whatever
        Last edited by Simmie; 02-19-2018, 05:37 AM. Reason: Correcting information

        Comment


          #34
          i've also just realised that the module circled in the bottom of the picture below that connects to the fuel pump relay and main relay is the module that is snipped of at one end on my loom.



          Went out into the rain to get the photo



          I wonder what problems this is going to cause, what does the black module even do?

          EDIT: Like Luke said it sends power to the ECU/DME, Main relay, fuel pump relay. I sent a 12v feed straight to the snipped off wire from the battery distribution box on the firewall. Note: a 50A fusible link is needed in the feed
          Last edited by Simmie; 02-19-2018, 05:39 AM. Reason: Corrections

          Comment


            #35
            Look up online "1990 535i electrical troubleshooting guide" and download it - this will be of great help.

            The thick wire that is snipped in your bunch of wires hooks up to the battery, the thin wire either goes to the diagnostic connector, or is a fusible link (if you look up the power distribution diagram in the manual, it's marked "E" in the Power Distribution box diagram). Trace the wire back to check what it is.

            "E" feeds power to the DME, the Main Relay, the Fuel Pump Relay and the Electronic Transmission Control unit.

            The black module is the main power junction for the electronics on that side of the engine loom (in the troubleshooting guide look up X1540 in the Component Location Chart).
            Last edited by lukeADE335i; 02-12-2018, 03:22 PM.
            My e30: OEM+ with M30B35

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by lukeADE335i View Post
              Look up online "1990 535i electrical troubleshooting guide" and download it - this will be of great help.

              The thick wire that is snipped in your bunch of wires hooks up to the battery, the thin wire either goes to the diagnostic connector, or is a fusible link (if you look up the power distribution diagram in the manual, it's marked "E" in the Power Distribution box diagram). Trace the wire back to check what it is.

              "E" feeds power to the DME, the Main Relay, the Fuel Pump Relay and the Electronic Transmission Control unit.

              The black module is the main power junction for the electronics on that side of the engine loom (in the troubleshooting guide look up X1540 in the Component Location Chart).
              I downloaded and had a look at the 1988 guide and i'll post an image of what I found below.

              So basically my understanding is that I need a wire to go from the battery box on my firewall to the large wire on the black module and I need a 50 amp fusible link (PN 61138365901?) in that line somewhere. That will give power to the DME, main relay, and fuel pump relay. Right? And then the other small wire that comes off it goes to the diagnostic connector, I assume to send a fault code if there's something wrong with the module.



              The other thing you mentioned to me in your build thread Was running a wire straight from the starter motor to the C200 plug. So, my understanding is that the C200 plug controls the power sent out by the ignition so (for example) on a manual car when the key is turned to the "on" position the C200 connector tells the starter solenoid to engage so that the engine can crank, right? So the idea is for me to unplug the current wire that goes to the the "park/neutral" circuits for an auto car and just run a wire straight from the starter to the C200 plug and then run a ground wire to pin 85 of both the K5 and K7 unloader relays in the fuse box? I assume I can't just ground the starter to the car chassis



              Comment


                #37
                Great diagrams / photos there! Yes - that looks pretty right to me.
                My e30: OEM+ with M30B35

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by lukeADE335i View Post
                  Great diagrams / photos there! Yes - that looks pretty right to me.
                  Was just about to make a quick post. I managed to get to engine to crank over happily yesterday. No spark and fuel doesn't pump unless relay is jumped so i'll have to have another look next weekend

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Sub'd....
                    Projects Hartge,Alpina & AC Schnitzer Builds.http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=280601
                    http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=227993
                    http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=289362

                    DSC04926 by Raul Salinas, on FlickrDSC03413 by Raul Salinas, on Flickr

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Getting it to turn over is a good start :D

                      Shouldn't be too hard from there.
                      My e30: OEM+ with M30B35

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Alrighty, on Sunday the first thing I did was run a test wire between the bottom pin on the starter to the C200 connector on the steering column. The result was an audible click of the starter solenoid engaging when the key is turned to crank the engine.

                        So, I make a wire to make the connection permanent with a female spade connector on the C200 end and a ring terminal on the other side to plug into the starter.



                        Once everything works i'll be running it alongside the 12v starter source and through the ECU loom to the inside of the car. I'll also need to work out how to wire in the unloader relays to the top terminal on the starter as they don't currently function when cranking.

                        The next thing was to run a wire straight from the battery to the control module to feed power to the ECU/DME, main relay, and fuel relay.

                        For now the cable is going straight from the battery junction box to the control module without a 50A fusible link which i'll add later. Any reason why that would stop the car from running?



                        Which got me to here

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTNzGWT2Wjw
                        Last edited by Simmie; 02-18-2018, 11:57 PM.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          So basically, the starter will happily crank however there is no spark and no fuel.

                          What I have tested

                          1. The CPS has a resistance of around ~540 ohms across pin 1 and 2. (within spec)

                          2. The fuel pump relay works as it should (power to the right pins when key is turned) and will pump fuel when the relay is jumped but won't otherwise

                          3. The main relay I believe is meant to always have 12v at pin 30 and then 12v at pin 85 as well when the ignition is turned. For some reason both pin 30 and 85 are both hot regardless of the ignition, not sure why.

                          4. The ignition coil has 12v running to it when the ignition is on and nothing when it is off

                          5. The ignition coil has ~0.8 ohms across the + & - and ~9800 ohms from the + or - to the middle. (within spec)

                          6. I don't think I can hear neither the fuel pump or main relay clicking when the ignition is turned on. But, like I mentioned the fuel pump will go if I jump the fuel pump relay
                          Last edited by Simmie; 02-19-2018, 12:37 AM.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Well, I'll start off the post with this

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQfw...ature=youtu.be

                            Yes I flinched, yes it is much louder than the video lets on

                            Now, time to get laughed at.

                            These two wires here that sit right next to the strut tower?



                            Need to be grounded to the strut tower


                            To figure out what was wrong I did some ECU testing using the diagram below from RTSAuto.com and found that the ground pins had no continuity with the shell. Once I grounded those two wires I magically had spark and fuel.



                            and this from E30Zone for reference



                            Now then, pedal box/clutch lines, gear linkage, exhaust, radiator hose/radiator, driveshaft, and A/C and we're driving.

                            Tomorrow I plan on knocking off pedal box/clutch lines, radiator hoses/radiator, and A/C.

                            I already have to gear linkage off being shortened and i'll drop off the driveshaft to be lengthened this week.

                            I'll probably tow the car to the exhaust shop once it's done to get the manifold fit around the steering rack
                            Last edited by Simmie; 02-24-2018, 04:37 AM.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Well done Simmie! Yes - the M30 with no exhaust is an epic sound, and a rite of passage for everyone who takes on an engine swap (a bit like the photo standing in the engine bay with no engine) :)

                              Make sure you replicate all grounds from an e34 for maximum reliability. I have the two grounds going to the strut tower in the engine harness that you've pictured, a ground from one of the rocker cover studs to the strut tower, a ground between the block and chassis rail near the engine mount on the passenger's side & a ground from the body of the alternator to the chassis. Your e30 may have had these anyway, but sometimes some are missing.
                              My e30: OEM+ with M30B35

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by lukeADE335i View Post
                                Well done Simmie! Yes - the M30 with no exhaust is an epic sound, and a rite of passage for everyone who takes on an engine swap (a bit like the photo standing in the engine bay with no engine) :)

                                Make sure you replicate all grounds from an e34 for maximum reliability. I have the two grounds going to the strut tower in the engine harness that you've pictured, a ground from one of the rocker cover studs to the strut tower, a ground between the block and chassis rail near the engine mount on the passenger's side & a ground from the body of the alternator to the chassis. Your e30 may have had these anyway, but sometimes some are missing.
                                True! Still can't believe how loud it is without the exhaust. Felt sorry for my neighbours after.

                                Glad you brought up the rocker cover ground. I had completely forgotten about it and i'm not sure I have one either. I'll make something up next weekend

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