Turning point for e30s?

[325e '87]

I can relate. I’m 48, bought my son a clean original eta manual to use as his first car. I loved it so much I decided to find a clean original for myself. I’m reliving my youth and using my car as a daily driver. It’s been a fun experience for my son and I.

I wouldn’t have spent the money for a swapped car. I didn’t want my son racing everyone and I wanted both of us to use the car as our daily drivers. We both value air conditioning and all the components on the cars working like they should.

If I ever find a non running with a good shell I can see building a fresh m20b25 with performance mods, but only up to 190hp or so. The feel and sound of a b25 spinning at 6000rpms is way to satisfying for me to swap in something else.

I just love these cars and I may be driving the last car I’ll ever own right now, and I’m fine with that. Sure, it’s not all that fast, but it sure drives nicely.

So mark me down for passing on swapped cars. They’re neat and I like to see them, but not something I would own.

[IRON-E]

Im 44 years old now, having done an S50 swap into my 88is, has also been an extremely satisfying experience. I will admit though, I do miss the sounds of an M20 at times, but I love the torque on command from the 24 valves.

The troubling part about the new school buyer is that, they are looking for the cherry e30s, but only to chop them up themselves, ie, airbags, shaved engine bays or fucking plastic flares and/or *wide body kits*
Clean stock form e30s, will always fetch better money than swapped cars that's for sure.
I'm going to enjoy driving my car till the wheels fall off.

[Julien]

Good points guys. Something that may also effect this trend is people not necessarily comfortable doing working on the car themselves or researching if a swap was done right. At the end of the day a swapped car will give you better hp and sometimes MPG at the cost of

- serviceability (not every mechanic out there knows you need an e34 oil pan, , e28 motor mounts, 325ix or 944 booster, etc etc) and may not feel comfortable working on it.

- lack of functioning accessories (a/c, obc, power steering, etc). These can all be made to work but good luck getting your average euro shop to make custom a/c lines, figure out obc, oil level sensor etc.

- ease of use (lower oil pan for m5x, no viscous fan, etc).

Even though these motors can be shoehorned in, they will never work quite like original without considerable work.. and then the money/time spent to give a factory driver experience can price the car out of the market.

I guess let's start chopping up e36s. I want one with an LSx :D

[JimmyP]

I think the biggest delta in the swap cars comes down to the actual swap and its quality.
Most,,, and I say most with a capitol M are complete kludges. Just done to get it running and go do a WOT straight line blast.

There are so few that are done that look like it came that way from the factory (or would have).
Austin's silver swapped E30 comes to mind as the poster car for done right.
That car is stellar and a complete outlier in the swapped E30 landscape.
Swap cars at that quality level will always have value in the used market.

I see the scales tipping daily "away" from the more common "I did this in my own garage with my bros" swap cars and values going towards survivor stock M20 powered cars with good reason.
The homebuilt, budget swap cars are a headache, that will be passed on forever until someone has the time and money to undo the shitty work and re-do it right. Very, very, very few people do these swaps "right".

[tinoe30]

Julien....I believe the market for clean, original and well cared for E30s is strong and is only getting stronger every day. Thanks to the fad to swap in big motors there are fewer original cars and prices have clearly jumped.

Similar thing happened years ago to the classic and muscle car market with everybody and their brother looking to drop a LSx motor into anything with 4 wheels.

I agree 100% with other comments that many big motor E30 swaps are poorly done. I say hooray that prices are falling for these kinda cars.

[JimmyP]

Julien....I believe the market for clean, original and well cared for E30s is strong and is only getting stronger every day. Thanks to the fad to swap in big motors there are fewer original cars and prices have clearly jumped. .

The same exact thing happened in the E30M3 world.
For a while, when the cars were cheap, it was swap mania,,, now swap cars are worth fractions of what the S14 powered cars are excepting a few outliers (as I predicted those years ago).

[tinoe30]

one more observation..

Thanks to the fad to stuff bigger motors into E30s the cost of getting a decent donor car (especially a coupe) to build a Spec E30 race car has more than doubled in the last few years....

[Kershaw]

I think a good part of it is that a lot of swap cars are beat to shit or riding on really rough suspension. Clean swapped e30s go for the same price that clean stock e30s go for. Swaps don't seem to add any value.

So maybe this is the tipping point. In the future, stock cars will be worth more.

[roguetoaster]

In the future, stock cars will be worth more.

Unless they're sedans, then $3.50 forever.

[zaq123]

Stock cars in a descent shape will always have a better return value and a larger market interest. I can see if it’s Alpina , Hartge etc swapped/modded the car. Or maybe some very bery reputable/well known shop did the swap. Otherwise typical swaps are of the unknown quality, possibly have another tired engine of the unknown condition etc. Unless the swap is well documented, I wouldn’t touch it. Stock car is a clear winner


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[SubDad]

So I should be glad that I've been too lazy to swap out the M20B20 in my bone-stock rust-free, Euro E30 and I can now sell it for the price of a 128 with Actual Air Conditioning?
But then I wouldn't be able to drive around making racecar noises and just barely not impeding traffic.
Hmm.

[tinoe30]

So I should be glad that I've been too lazy to swap out the M20B20 in my bone-stock rust-free, Euro E30 and I can now sell it for the price of a 128 with Actual Air Conditioning?
But then I wouldn't be able to drive around making racecar noises and just barely not impeding traffic.
Hmm.

Yes, be proud you have not butchered a perfectly good car. Good grief, it's rust free in Canada? Eh, that's impressive. Besides, that bone stock car shouldn't impede traffic. Not when Ottawa is ranked the second worse city for congestion in Canada. Only surpassed by Vancouver.

[roguetoaster]

So I should be glad that I've been too lazy to swap out the M20B20 in my bone-stock rust-free, Euro E30 and I can now sell it for the price of a 128 with Actual Air Conditioning?
But then I wouldn't be able to drive around making racecar noises and just barely not impeding traffic.
Hmm.

M20B20 was easily my least favorite Euro engine, vastly preferred the M40. So, the way to add value to that car is to add B25.

[KIRIEIW]

I'm doing a swap currently on my convertible, putting in a S50. I guess it all comes down to how meticulous and caring the person is doing the swap. I knew I wouldn't be happy with someone else's swap work so I set out and started a swap myself.

Also a side note, everything I've done so far I'm proud to say is easily reversible, that's the good thing with M5x/ S5x swaps (unless some guys are really hacking these swaps together to get them running). I literally can't think of one mod I've had to do that changed my car permanently to the point of no return/ would never make it the same like the factory left it (disregarding the e36 steering rack swap). By this I'm referring to cutting holes in sheet metal, or any cutting in general, messing with wiring on the e30 harness side.

I'm not sure how other's are doing swaps but it's been damn near bolt in for me with AKG engine mounts and re pinning the e36 S50 engine wiring harness to "plug and play" with my e30 C101 body connector. It actually would be a bolt in swap if you didn't need to change the brake booster (which is basically a bolt in part anyways, I was still able to use my factory e30 master cylinder) and re pin the e36 engine harness. My point is it's easy enough to re install a M20 so long you keep it..

[Julien]

I'm doing a swap currently on my convertible, putting in a S50. I guess it all comes down to how meticulous and caring the person is doing the swap. I knew I wouldn't be happy with someone else's swap work so I set out and started a swap myself.

Also a side note, everything I've done so far I'm proud to say is easily reversible, that's the good thing with M5x/ S5x swaps (unless some guys are really hacking these swaps together to get them running). I literally can't think of one mod I've had to do that changed my car permanently to the point of no return/ would never make it the same like the factory left it (disregarding the e36 steering rack swap). By this I'm referring to cutting holes in sheet metal, or any cutting in general, messing with wiring on the e30 harness side.

I'm not sure how other's are doing swaps but it's been damn near bolt in for me with AKG engine mounts and re pinning the e36 S50 engine wiring harness to "plug and play" with my e30 C101 body connector. It actually would be a bolt in swap if you didn't need to change the brake booster (which is basically a bolt in part anyways, I was still able to use my factory e30 master cylinder) and re pin the e36 engine harness. My point is it's easy enough to re install a M20 so long you keep it..

Right, but if your end game is to take the s5x back out and reinstall an m20, it seems like a pretty big waste of time/money for temporary power. Don’t get me wrong, s5x cars are hella fun, but if you’re building something that you want to appreciate with age, I recommend keeping the factory motor in there, especially if its a 318is/325is or mtech car.