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    #31
    Originally posted by CleanAzzE30z View Post
    Instead of handling immigration properly, how about handling the social situations that create gangs properly.
    And what would you say those (social situations or causes) would be? And what would the possible solutions be?

    Definitely interested to hear (err, read) your perspective.

    Comment


      #32
      ^ Obvious you have not spent enough time in impoverished inner city regions.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by Farbin Kaiber View Post
        ^ Obvious you have not spent enough time in impoverished inner city regions.
        Thanks jackass

        I did not want to throw in any ideas or assumptions, and hear it straight from him. My parents church that I went to when a kid was straight in the center of the murder capital of my city with lots of gang problems... but am interested in what Mariano has to say for causes / solutions.

        Comment


          #34
          I hear the Armenian gangs are pretty ruthless out there....

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by freeride53 View Post
            ignore the conservative rednecks
            our country would be nothing without its latin immigrants, be them legal or not.
            Would you mind if I asked how you got involved in the gang? I have had friends who got into gangs, I really haven't seen them since jr. high, or my freshman year of high school. Living right by Oakland, you see a lot of thangs. BTW, Tupac went to high school with my uncle.

            and here's one for the mix.
            EDIT:: PLEASE READ MY ENTIRE POST IF YOU READ THIS POST!!When thats all you see youre friends doing and youre not old enough to see where it will take you, it is normal. My uncle was from one of the most infamous gangs in L.A. and I looked up to him as a young kid like he was the dad I didnt have involved in my life. All you see is the fun, the respect you get, the girls, all the good things. No one fucks with you and its accepted, nay, encouraged to be violent. And you protect eachother. Thats what the facade was..... then you get into it and get involved in drugs, death, and jail then you start realizing what its all about. But by then, youre 20-25, probably have kids, felonies on your record and even a drug addiction and "homies" pulling you back in. Its very hard to leave the life. Even when you realize it for what it is. Youve conditioned yourself so well to be able to move in tha environment and then you realize this whole time that you have to change everything about you to move in reality and society;s environment. There comes the struggle between who youve learned to be, and who you need to b to really move forward.
            Originally posted by trent View Post
            Please. His best friend is a conservative redneck.
            True story. And one of the best most dependable friends Ive ever had..... no joke. Thanks for being there Trent. From the Wetback to you, redneck.
            Originally posted by rwh11385 View Post
            And what would you say those (social situations or causes) would be? And what would the possible solutions be?

            Definitely interested to hear (err, read) your perspective.
            It all starts with education and welfare reform. Why would a mother work and have to pay for day care if bybeing on welfare they pay her more and she can afford housing and not need to worry about day care?? They take away all assistance when she does get a job and in the end shes lft with mch left. But thats all after-the-fact. They need to start with education because this generation is fucked. Its too late. There needs to be more social help programs and boys and girls clubs instead of cutting all of those programs. Instead of cutting programs in prisons to help convicts get jobs and move in society, they need to increase them. Its a fact that recidivism goes down when these programs are provided. And california has an astounding 70% recidivism rate within the first 2-3 years of being released/paroled. That is unacceptable. More programs like father Gregory Boyle's Homeboy Industries that have proven without a doubt that these people (thugs) can be rehabilitated and not through jail/prison. I consider myself an aware kind of guy and not stupid. I know from experience that jail makes people worse. Its crime school. It even made ME smarter and I wasnt trying to learn by that point. Too many things need to be done on good faith that will not happen because theres no money in it. More gang interventionists. California is #1 in prison spending and #49 in education spending. We spend 10X's the amount of money per prisoner than we do per student, per capita. Theres something wrong with that picture. It would have been nice to have never gotten to this point but its too late. It is well-known and well-documented that the establishment did not care about the gang problem when it was growing in the 70's because it wasnt affecting middle-class america. Thats where they went wrong because it grew and dtarted hitting the middle-class. They could have stopped it when we were "just killing eachother". Flooding the inner cities with cocaine to pay for the Contras in Nicaragua didnt help either. Mandatory minimums for drug offenders didnt help. Different sentences for powder and rock cocaine didnt help. 3 strikes law is by all criteria a resounding failure. You cannot legislate and incarcerate yourself out of a socio-economic problem. That is all fact what Ive just said and without bias. None of this will happen because it is too easy to scapegoat the lower classes and not advocate for these prgrams for fear of being seen as "soft on crime" and I dont necessarily blame them because thats the political system in which we live in. The fundamental motivations and interests need to change. I guarantee with my life that the way it is currently being handled is defnitely not the way. De-criminalize drug posession (not distribution) and have more proactive programs like the ones in Scandinavia and Holland and make a serious, effective attempt at weeing people off of drugs. There are more drugs in jail and prison than on the street. If the principal purpose of the "corrections" system is to "rehabilitate" then follow through and take actions to do so. Im not a bleeding heart liberal and I do not believe in giving people free money. BUT you have to hurt a little sometimes to feel better. In some capacity it is needed for a certain amount of time. Do not make it difficult for people to get care for babies or get abortions and then get rid of all the prgrams to help a single inner-city mom make a living or raise a child. It will be a long long process to deprogram these people that having 4 kids with 3 guys before your 20 yrs old is absolutely not acceptable. Thats only a few of the things I have to say and Im sure this will all get very serious and you guys will jump on me for saying it, but it needs to happen or else none of it will get better, and well have to take more and more money out of our pocket to pay for others benefits, prisoners, prisons, illegitimate children, etc.
            Originally posted by Farbin Kaiber View Post
            ^ Obvious you have not spent enough time in impoverished inner city regions.
            Well, in his defense. No one wants to spend too much time in these areas.
            Originally posted by rwh11385 View Post
            Thanks jackass

            I did not want to throw in any ideas or assumptions, and hear it straight from him. My parents church that I went to when a kid was straight in the center of the murder capital of my city with lots of gang problems... but am interested in what Mariano has to say for causes / solutions.
            I have much much more ideas. But people call me an idealist in this area. It is reality and I know its whats needed because Ive seen it. But it will require lots of money and lots of good faith that the people in control and the voters just dont have. These are people were talking about and it wont work for everyone, but as soon as someone gets out on parole and kills again, they make the criteria for parole ore strict for everyone. Some people will still gangbang and be criminals but FAR more people will get straight. I know all the people my age dont want to live that lifestyle. But once you have a felony on your record and youre on rediculous probation conditions, its very difficult to get a job, and stay out of jail. Why get a job that pays $300 a day when you can get $300 in a few hours and do what you want for the rest of the day and thats all youve known since you were a kid? Youd be stupid NOT to. Put in that situation and having learned and shielded from the fact that its just wrong (I used to think like this) Im positive the majority of you would have done the same thing. I used to actually think there was nothing wrong with dealing drugs because at least you were giving people what they wanted up front and providing a service for money. I felt more honorable than people that fuck people out of their life savings very shady and taking the money and running. At least with drugs, the person comes for the goods, pays me, and gets exactly what he paid for and what he wanted. But now I know its wrong. I never hooked any kids on drugs, or any of that shit. And believe me. It does not go down how they show on TV that they go to middle schools and hook kids. Thats a big no-no.


            In the end, you become a man and its YOUR decision and responsibility to make the right decision. The people who are there now, are too far gone and too much trouble to try and change. But if you start young with the kids, the problems slowly start getting better through the generations. But people want a quick fix and there is none. There are 4th and 5th generation gang members. Thats hard to work with. It took a long time to get here and itll take long to get out of it. There comes a time when the blame is not on "society" and "environment" and its up to you. Yes, you were taught that way, but now you must realize that its wrong, stop blaming others, and get your shit straight. But theres got to be a way for the people that DO want to go straight to be able to do so and not be so difficult. THAT I believe. I dont blame society anymore. Im a man and I know whats right and whats wrong and I realize what being a criminal is really about and what it gets me. If I fall back into it, its my fault all on me. But I have the resources and desire to change. MANY people do not have the resources but do have the desire. SOme people will just always blame others and never look inwards for causes to their strife. That is an inherently american way of thinking that has gotten worse with the lawsuit-crazy populace/culture that has been cultivated.

            Makes some sense?

            Mariano
            Last edited by CleanAzzE30z; 05-04-2010, 01:21 PM.


            2001 Titaniumsilber 540i Sport 6-Speed
            1990 Diamantschwarz Alpha-N 2.5L ///M3
            1986 Alpinweiss 325e M50B25 (R.I.P.)

            -Talk to me when more sound comes from the induction than from the exhaust...

            -Argentina........lo mas grande que hay.

            Comment


              #36
              Yeah, cool hearing it from you (although tough to read through all the long paragraphs). I agree there's a lot of messed up young people, and not really always good role models or influences available. Certainly Boys and Girls Club is a great program to give a healthy place to socially interact and spend time, and I'd like to think that volunteerism is strong but I'd also say that the areas that need help the most are the ones probably most ignored.

              I didn't want to throw it all into a poor / money cause, because that cannot be all of it. There's a lot of poor people but not all of them turn to gangs and selling drugs. You mentioned young mom's raising kids, how much does the family aspect of a gang factor in when dealing with a single mom or unprepared mom?

              I got into a debate with a friend about it not being fair some people are brought up to not value an education (even a HS diploma) and its not their fault that they drop out. I certainly think it puts them in a rough spot but also don't want the government bailing them out and rewarding them for giving up on K-12 education. How can you (government, community, society) impact people who aren't inspired to learn and make something of themselves? Where does the path go awry usually with kids getting into trouble? It must take a lot of will power or drive to rise out of a tradition of gangs, welfare, poverty... but certainly society also cannot give up on them.

              Although not as serious of a problem, I see young people all over unmotivated because of whatever reasons. There's a lot of people who take up drugs to pass the time in some avenues or develop a "scene" to obsess over instead of progressing with life. They are living off the parents while being emo about them at the same time, but the root is still there - no drive to make something better out of themselves. I know you mentioned your passion for music and educating yourself to pursue that calling, but how can society / community / government help inspire and motivate people to do more than simply get by? I think if you find that answer you might be able to open people's eyes in all environments to give up wasteful behavior in order to achieve.

              I am sure it is probably agreeable that a solid family of parents (I personally don't care if MF, MM, or FF) who are in their 30s and push their kids (2 of them) to succeed are capable of passing on a legacy of development and achievement... but I was doing some reading that the reality of Idiocracy is coming. Those who are uneducated and less intelligent are reproducing globally at a much higher rate than those who are logical, smart, and responsible. Heck, the responsible people are not even replacing themselves. How does the world, country, etc. provide for those who are less capable through upbringing with declining proportion of responsible people? - Basically, what ways would you see to encourage a limit of children to young people? You mention cutting back the programs that reward this behavior, but anything else to deprogram them?
              Last edited by rwh11385; 05-04-2010, 02:16 PM.

              Comment


                #37
                Great read Mariano!
                Build your own dreams, or someone else will hire you to build theirs!

                Your signature picture has been removed since it contained the Photobucket "upgrade your account" image.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by rwh11385 View Post
                  I didn't want to throw it all into a poor / money cause, because that cannot be all of it. There's a lot of poor people but not all of them turn to gangs and selling drugs. You mentioned young mom's raising kids, how much does the family aspect of a gang factor in when dealing with a single mom or unprepared mom?

                  I got into a debate with a friend about it not being fair some people are brought up to not value an education (even a HS diploma) and its not their fault that they drop out. I certainly think it puts them in a rough spot but also don't want the government bailing them out and rewarding them for giving up on K-12 education. How can you (government, community, society) impact people who aren't inspired to learn and make something of themselves? Where does the path go awry usually with kids getting into trouble? It must take a lot of will power or drive to rise out of a tradition of gangs, welfare, poverty... but certainly society also cannot give up on them.

                  Although not as serious of a problem, I see young people all over unmotivated because of whatever reasons. There's a lot of people who take up drugs to pass the time in some avenues or develop a "scene" to obsess over instead of progressing with life. They are living off the parents while being emo about them at the same time, but the root is still there - no drive to make something better out of themselves. I know you mentioned your passion for music and educating yourself to pursue that calling, but how can society / community / government help inspire and motivate people to do more than simply get by? I think if you find that answer you might be able to open people's eyes in all environments to give up wasteful behavior in order to achieve.

                  I am sure it is probably agreeable that a solid family of parents (I personally don't care if MF, MM, or FF) who are in their 30s and push their kids (2 of them) to succeed are capable of passing on a legacy of development and achievement... but I was doing some reading that the reality of Idiocracy is coming. Those who are uneducated and less intelligent are reproducing globally at a much higher rate than those who are logical, smart, and responsible. Heck, the responsible people are not even replacing themselves. How does the world, country, etc. provide for those who are less capable through upbringing with declining proportion of responsible people? - Basically, what ways would you see to encourage a limit of children to young people? You mention cutting back the programs that reward this behavior, but anything else to deprogram them?
                  Like I mentioned before, the surefire way to do it is to teach and educate future children and then it will be an investment that will pay off in the coming generations. Thats the only way I see. Also, I dont put the blame on parents all the time. Many of the time its not that the parents dont care or are indifferent to having criminal children, its that they do not spend anough time at home with their children due to hectic work schedules. It has been proven time after time scientifically that a child without their father is exponentially more likely to turn to crime. That is fact. I dont think there is a "blame" to put. Its just been a certain set of circumstances and factors that have contributed to this problem. But the past is prologue, we DO know that how its going doesnt work, and we DO know what doesnt work. So the only logical thing to do is something different. If youthink about it without bias, or prejudice, the answer also becomes clearer. I also think Idiocracy is not far off, sadly. Were already seeing it with lowest common denominator shows like American Idol, Fear Factor, Celebrity rehab, etc.... They are popular because it appeals to every human to see others humiliated, it appeals to our lowest instincts.


                  2001 Titaniumsilber 540i Sport 6-Speed
                  1990 Diamantschwarz Alpha-N 2.5L ///M3
                  1986 Alpinweiss 325e M50B25 (R.I.P.)

                  -Talk to me when more sound comes from the induction than from the exhaust...

                  -Argentina........lo mas grande que hay.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    pillar?

                    A pillar or b pillar? or MAD TYTE ///M3 c pillar?

                    Comment


                      #40
                      M Pillar on 26's yo!!


                      2001 Titaniumsilber 540i Sport 6-Speed
                      1990 Diamantschwarz Alpha-N 2.5L ///M3
                      1986 Alpinweiss 325e M50B25 (R.I.P.)

                      -Talk to me when more sound comes from the induction than from the exhaust...

                      -Argentina........lo mas grande que hay.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by CleanAzzE30z View Post
                        Like I mentioned before, the surefire way to do it is to teach and educate future children and then it will be an investment that will pay off in the coming generations. Thats the only way I see. Also, I dont put the blame on parents all the time. Many of the time its not that the parents dont care or are indifferent to having criminal children, its that they do not spend anough time at home with their children due to hectic work schedules. It has been proven time after time scientifically that a child without their father is exponentially more likely to turn to crime. That is fact. I dont think there is a "blame" to put. Its just been a certain set of circumstances and factors that have contributed to this problem. But the past is prologue, we DO know that how its going doesnt work, and we DO know what doesnt work. So the only logical thing to do is something different. If youthink about it without bias, or prejudice, the answer also becomes clearer. I also think Idiocracy is not far off, sadly. Were already seeing it with lowest common denominator shows like American Idol, Fear Factor, Celebrity rehab, etc.... They are popular because it appeals to every human to see others humiliated, it appeals to our lowest instincts.
                        Cool man. Yeah, reality shows and watching other people do through (usually dramatic yet boring lives) instead of living it yourself is a pet peeve of mine. With shit like Super Sweet 16, we are shown spoiled brats instead of people working hard to be successful. I don't think young people are shown what it takes to be anything and give up as soon as they hit a road block.

                        So besides improving education (and not just prepping them better for standardized tests), and more positive development, what else is there? I know one place I've mentioned the US government coming short of what they could do is identifying strengths / abilities of its young people to direct them towards a proper career. There may always be direction changes and try and fail in the course of a lifetime, but not enough information exists like BLS.gov to communicate which industries have their fill, which ones have growth, and what someone can aim for. ... Do you think perhaps if more programs were in place and investment to connect young people to potential interests and careers that it would help the slide towards crime? (pointing towards you and music for example... more exposure to different opportunities)

                        I understand busy parents and such, but do you see that being the case of need of After School programs or Boys and Girls Club being able to solve the majority of risk there. And do you blame the girls for getting knocked up too young for living irresponsibility? Is there anything the government could do to ensure not getting knocked up? (I know there are places to get free condoms, but what else). Sometimes it is chicks wanting to "accomplish" something who think motherhood is the answer, but what factors do you see that leads to young mothers (besides just general horniness)?

                        Thanks again man, good discussion

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                          #42
                          Cars.
                          Check my feedback HERE

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