Time to stop contributing to your own retirment?

[Hallen]

Sounds like another attempt at suckering people in by offering to "help" them. Worked for Obama.

Oh, and it gets worse, much worse. There are proposals out there to take all of our 401k plans and dump them into a giant government run plan too.

SEIU is just looking for a way to get their mostly uneducated and unskilled labor a nice retirement by sharing money that other people put into the pot.

It is frightening because some of the current administration's advisers support plans like this. It wouldn't surprise me for Obama to target this kind of thing next.

If I could just have all the taxes, not the interest just the principle so to speak, back that have been paid into SS over the years and add it to my 401k program, my retirement account would look pretty good right now. It would be on target for an age 60 retirement. As it sits now, I might get the principle back after retirement, but I doubt it. And by then it will be too late anyway.

Government run "pensions" are yet another joke that take initiative and liberty away from us. But I'm sure the caring and progressive left will see this as a fair way to do things, it will make us all equal in retirement. So, it's good, yes?:roll: We can all sink into the doldrums and apathy apparent in Europe today. I have a hangnail, the government should do something about that.

[z31maniac]

Like I said before, the insurance companies have always rationed care.

You mean performing life saving operations on the elderly is rationing care?

Like the NHS denies drugs to Breast Cancer patients?


It's unbelieveable how fucking stupid you are. Wait til you have to put the bong down and join the rest of us in the real world.

[ck_taft325is]

One King sent an Emissary to another King to ask how he kept his population firmly in line. The King took the emissary out to the wheat fields and started breaking any wheat stalk that rose above the others. The analogy is simple. In "fairness" we'll be told it's wrong to be wealthier, prettier, smarter, etc, etc...

This is Tyranical. The Left likes to say we're just being nay-sayers, but the evidences of your idealogy are built upon the backs of the honest, hard working American's you're claiming to "help".

[LBJefferies]

You mean performing life saving operations on the elderly is rationing care?

Like the NHS denies drugs to Breast Cancer patients?


It's unbelieveable how fucking stupid you are. Wait til you have to put the bong down and join the rest of us in the real world.

Oh really? How about all the times that insurance companies have turned people of all ages down for life saving operations? Insurance companies will do anything to weasel out of paying. Even if it means fucking over 12 year old children. Eat a dick you stupid ignorant piece of shit.

[mrsleeve]

Oh really? How about all the times that insurance companies have turned people of all ages down for life saving operations? Insurance companies will do anything to weasel out of paying. Even if it means fucking over 12 year old children. Eat a dick you stupid ignorant piece of shit.

Yes but that not the govt writing the rules and telling its citizens that fuck you its your time to die sorry about your luck. There is a huge difference there.

If your current H.I. wont pay buy into a new policy, so long as you have not had a lapse in coverage for more than 60 days YOU CANT BE DENIED CARE FOR YOUR PREEXISTING CONDITIONS under the OLD rules.

Yes you can thank the GOVT for pushing HMO's on employers in the 70's and they are the ones that were/are notorious for denial due to the treatment needed is not in the defined terms of the HMO agreements. Go do a little reading on the HMO act, but you will like that, as its not that unlike what we just got. It was sometime in the early 80's the private for profit HMO'S took over the bulk of the HMO market

You are so woefully ignorant of these things, once you get into the real world you would know some of this shit that affects your life.

[johnwoo]

Hahahaha who's misinformed?!?!?! THIS BILL REMOVED THE CAP!

i really have no answer to this because you sound very ignorant and misinformed. the cap is set by the government funded hc now in play because there is a set budget. i never said the system was right or fair however the "reform" makes things worse. and if we had gotten a public option that would have been even worse.

how old are your parents? if they are like mine then they are on the cusp of being on medicare. which is being cut substantially. how are your parents going to pay for their hc when the irs agents decide that hey its prolly not cost efficient to try and extend their lives...lets just dope them up.
please please live in the real world before spitting rhetoric about hc. i work in the hc industry and i know that this reform is horrible for everyone but the idiots who think this is "christmas"

[LBJefferies]

i really have no answer to this because you sound very ignorant and misinformed. the cap is set by the government funded hc now in play because there is a set budget. i never said the system was right or fair however the "reform" makes things worse. and if we had gotten a public option that would have been even worse.

how old are your parents? if they are like mine then they are on the cusp of being on medicare. which is being cut substantially. how are your parents going to pay for their hc when the irs agents decide that hey its prolly not cost efficient to try and extend their lives...lets just dope them up.
please please live in the real world before spitting rhetoric about hc. i work in the hc industry and i know that this reform is horrible for everyone but the idiots who think this is "christmas"

You're telling me to live in the real world when you are the one saying that the irs is going to decide whether my parents live or not??!?! Someone should strap a straight jacket on you because you are fucking crazy paranoid. Listen to yourself man.

I can't even believe the shit I am hearing right now. The IRS has nothing to do with this bill!! In fact, health insurance is still 100% private! Obama just did the PRIVATE insurance capitalist pigs a favor by handing them almost 50 million new customers! The only thing the government is doing is offering tax subsidies to people whom make less than 88k a year. It's as if you ignorant fucks can't even read or comprehend anything. You have your heads so far into the clouds with this socialist 1984 bullshit that you can't even see this health care bill for what it is, a handout to big business.

[rwh11385]

The IRS has nothing to do with this bill!!

Are you ignorant, unable to read, or just stupid? 16,000 new IRS workers are being hired because of this bill...

Where's my pizza? It has been 30 minutes.

[LBJefferies]

Are you ignorant, unable to read, or just stupid? 16,000 new IRS workers are being hired because of this bill...

Where's my pizza? It has been 30 minutes.

Ok, they are offering TAX SUBSIDIES which is pretty much the exact opposite of what the IRS wants to do. They are not adding any new taxes. They are offering LESS TAXES to people that make less than 88k. Do you understand the difference or do I have to explain it better? Elitist prick.

[z31maniac]

No, they are offering tax subsidies. IE tax refunds for broke asses.

God damn you're fucking retarded.

[LBJefferies]

No, they are offering tax subsidies. IE tax refunds for broke asses.

God damn you're fucking retarded.

Isn't that what I just said? They are offering less taxes to people that make less than 88k. How much do you make? I would bet it's less than 88k. Do you consider yourself a broke ass? Did you even read the bill?

[ck_taft325is]

Anyone making less than $88,000 a year will have to pay the majority of the taxes in this bill.

Interesting question though, did YOU read the bill?

[LBJefferies]

Anyone making less than $88,000 a year will have to pay the majority of the taxes in this bill.

Interesting question though, did YOU read the bill?

That makes absolutely no sense considering they are getting subsidies.

[johnwoo]

You're telling me to live in the real world when you are the one saying that the irs is going to decide whether my parents live or not??!?! Someone should strap a straight jacket on you because you are fucking crazy paranoid. Listen to yourself man.

I can't even believe the shit I am hearing right now. The IRS has nothing to do with this bill!! In fact, health insurance is still 100% private! Obama just did the PRIVATE insurance capitalist pigs a favor by handing them almost 50 million new customers! The only thing the government is doing is offering tax subsidies to people whom make less than 88k a year. It's as if you ignorant fucks can't even read or comprehend anything. You have your heads so far into the clouds with this socialist 1984 bullshit that you can't even see this health care bill for what it is, a handout to big business.

you must be chinese as you spout the same mao communist crap as my chinese brothers back in the motherland.

my point was that the irs gets to determine who has acceptable health insurance and gets to tax and penalize people for not. A TAX AGENCY HAS THE POWER NOW TO MAKE A MEDICAL DECISION. why does the irs get to decide "adequate" insurance. what if i need medication coverage but the irs determines that no medication coverage is "adequate". yes i skipped a couple of steps and linked the irs as the agency that directly determines care. however i do not believe that the power, now granted to the irs or the government, will only be restricted to determine who has "adequate" insurance and taxing. if the government is the ultimate payer and determines the "marketprice" then they will be dictating what type of care is "adequate" whether it is now or eventually

look at the VA hospitals. look at medicaid, look at medicare. all of these are government run hc programs and they provide the crappiest care. and its not guaranteed that if you have health insurance your even going to be able to see a doctor. go ask all of the medicaid participants how easy it is for them to go see their pcp? in your utopian hc reform your failing to account for the DELIVERY of hc. whats the good in everyone having insurance if you still cant get in to see your doc? there is no financial incentive for the docs to stay late and see all these patients when medicaid pays so shitty (which is what this reform is extended medicaid). oh wait i forget docs get "moral satisfaction" in doing the right thing. well last time i checked "moral satisfaction" doesn't pay for student loans, mortgage, food, utilities. but wait attorneys are still free to sue. with no tort reform the costs are going to stay the same. only thing that is going to change is QUALITY OF CARE.

why does tort reform have an effect on cost? well because of medical lawsuits physicians now practice defensive medicine, meaning "hmm, i think i know what this person has but because i don't want to get sued im going to order every freakin test i can to cover my ass just in case i get sued". newsflash the big chunk of hc cost is from tests and drugs. o wait this reform doesn't touch the pharmaceutical companies either.

why do you not understand this? it is not a hard concept to grasp. you do not seem like a complete retard but i really question your reasoning skills as you are unable to follow the simple reasoning that has been laid out. i agree with you in that there needs to be healthcare reform BUT this reform is not the way to do it. and neither is a public option.

it is going to be a rude awakening when you are 66 years old and realize that your hc (medicare) benefits are completely nonexistent, and the bill that you supported when you were 12 is coming back to haunt you. is it really worth it to give "christmas" to everyone at the cost of our parents and grandparents?

[z31maniac]

Isn't that what I just said? They are offering less taxes to people that make less than 88k. How much do you make? I would bet it's less than 88k. Do you consider yourself a broke ass? Did you even read the bill?

For FAMILIES of FOUR making less than $88k a year.

So since I'm a 28 year old male, with pay at 515% of the poverty level, I am not eligible for any subsidy. Once the girlfriend and I are married, it will be even worse as she makes even more than I do.