LSD Internal Debris

[bmwman91]

lol wow, it's been a while since I have seen one of these threads.

OP, seriously, just look into a custom built/rebuilt unit. You are going to spend the same time and money overall if you try to find a "good deal" on a used LSD. An open diff is about the only thing you can buy used for cheap and have any expectation of it not being totally worn out (since there are inherently so many fewer things to wear). All of the used, stock E30 LSDs out there have 200k miles on them, and if you are getting one from r3v (or a place like it), it has probably been driven hard enough to demand a rebuild. I probably wasted $1200 over 8 years on 3 different LSD's I found through the forums, none of which were in great working condition and either did not lock up properly, made terrible noises or some combination thereof. Then I sucked it up and shelled out $2k for a proper unit that met my performance needs, and chances are that it will outlive the rest of the car. Best of all, I know I will not have to waste time wondering whether I am leaving one or two tire marks or if I am going to find mashed up bolts in the gears.

If your budget is less, you can look into a relatively clean Torsen gear diff from later model Z3's which seem to go for around $600 in reasonable condition. Wangan knows a lot more about the details of this swap, and the pros/cons. For a used diff in that price range, I cannot imagine buying a clutch type LSD over the Torsen simply because the Torsen is a lot less likely to need a full rebuild.

Regardless of Wangan's perceived tone on here, he's a good guy. I had him build me a unit and met him in person. His posting style is pretty different than his in-person style, and I can't blame him. He builds these things professionally and probably has a PM box loaded with 8 million "hey I have $250 what kind of sick track diff can I get?" questions. As he told me, correctly, the vast majority of E30 owners are not willing to spend the KBB value of the entire car on a proper diff, which is simply what one costs. I get where the "r3vtard" thing comes from, even if it is a bit overused here. I was one for a long time, due either to being young & broke because I had not started a career yet, or because I was still in a "sick forum deallzzzzzz, buying new is for suckers" mindset. Overused or not, the term has its place.

[Frobill]

lol wow, it's been a while since I have seen one of these threads.

OP, seriously, just look into a custom built/rebuilt unit. You are going to spend the same time and money overall if you try to find a "good deal" on a used LSD. An open diff is about the only thing you can buy used for cheap and have any expectation of it not being totally worn out (since there are inherently so many fewer things to wear). All of the used, stock E30 LSDs out there have 200k miles on them, and if you are getting one from r3v (or a place like it), it has probably been driven hard enough to demand a rebuild. I probably wasted $1200 over 8 years on 3 different LSD's I found through the forums, none of which were in great working condition and either did not lock up properly, made terrible noises or some combination thereof. Then I sucked it up and shelled out $2k for a proper unit that met my performance needs, and chances are that it will outlive the rest of the car. Best of all, I know I will not have to waste time wondering whether I am leaving one or two tire marks or if I am going to find mashed up bolts in the gears.

If your budget is less, you can look into a relatively clean Torsen gear diff from later model Z3's which seem to go for around $600 in reasonable condition. Wangan knows a lot more about the details of this swap, and the pros/cons. For a used diff in that price range, I cannot imagine buying a clutch type LSD over the Torsen simply because the Torsen is a lot less likely to need a full rebuild.

Regardless of Wangan's perceived tone on here, he's a good guy. I had him build me a unit and met him in person. His posting style is pretty different than his in-person style, and I can't blame him. He builds these things professionally and probably has a PM box loaded with 8 million "hey I have $250 what kind of sick track diff can I get?" questions. As he told me, correctly, the vast majority of E30 owners are not willing to spend the KBB value of the entire car on a proper diff, which is simply what one costs. I get where the "r3vtard" thing comes from, even if it is a bit overused here. I was one for a long time, due either to being young & broke because I had not started a career yet, or because I was still in a "sick forum deallzzzzzz, buying new is for suckers" mindset. Overused or not, the term has its place.

Wangan - what's your guidance on "Torsen gear diff from later model Z3's ?"

[Steve Corbett]

Can I use a Non LSD with a good ring and pinion and case and swap my LSD unit if I check gear mesh and backlash?

[Wanganstyle]

LSD Internal Debris

Wangan - what's your guidance on "Torsen gear diff from later model Z3's ?"

Find one in a ratio you like in the newest possible condition and install.

Still gambling on prior owner actually changing the oil......

But it’s going to be better than gambling on e30 units. Z3’s are 1998-2003; much newer than 1986-1992 or even older junkier dirtier e28 unit.

Gear type units don’t have parts designed to wear; clutch type Lsd units are good from new-100k miles.

Obviously 100k miles has been eclipsed by all but the e30m’s stuffed in the bmw museum since birth.

All differentials have bearings; the main job is to roll smoothly ; bearings do wear and esp when starved of oil or fed Shit r3vtard spec oil (low grade never changed, low fluid level, then abused).

Can I use a Non LSD with a good ring and pinion and case and swap my LSD unit if I check gear mesh and backlash?

This would be lemons field swap style; no reason why it wouldn’t work.

Roll out the open from a good unit and roll in the Lsd.

Still would be gambling on the Lsd being decent inside; but you can buy new internal clutch plates and steels from the Porsche parts counter.

Assuming the spiders aren’t fubar; it can live again. Bmw factory procedure would have one resetting the stack height to factory spec after making all damaged surfaces flat again.

Usually the top cap, center ramp friction surface to clutch plate will be not flat from abuse. You want things flat inside as they were designed to function via zf

[ThatOneEuroE30]

LSD Internal Debris

lol wow, it's been a while since I have seen one of these threads.

OP, seriously, just look into a custom built/rebuilt unit. You are going to spend the same time and money overall if you try to find a "good deal" on a used LSD. An open diff is about the only thing you can buy used for cheap and have any expectation of it not being totally worn out (since there are inherently so many fewer things to wear). All of the used, stock E30 LSDs out there have 200k miles on them, and if you are getting one from r3v (or a place like it), it has probably been driven hard enough to demand a rebuild. I probably wasted $1200 over 8 years on 3 different LSD's I found through the forums, none of which were in great working condition and either did not lock up properly, made terrible noises or some combination thereof. Then I sucked it up and shelled out $2k for a proper unit that met my performance needs, and chances are that it will outlive the rest of the car. Best of all, I know I will not have to waste time wondering whether I am leaving one or two tire marks or if I am going to find mashed up bolts in the gears.

If your budget is less, you can look into a relatively clean Torsen gear diff from later model Z3's which seem to go for around $600 in reasonable condition. Wangan knows a lot more about the details of this swap, and the pros/cons. For a used diff in that price range, I cannot imagine buying a clutch type LSD over the Torsen simply because the Torsen is a lot less likely to need a full rebuild.

Regardless of Wangan's perceived tone on here, he's a good guy. I had him build me a unit and met him in person. His posting style is pretty different than his in-person style, and I can't blame him. He builds these things professionally and probably has a PM box loaded with 8 million "hey I have $250 what kind of sick track diff can I get?" questions. As he told me, correctly, the vast majority of E30 owners are not willing to spend the KBB value of the entire car on a proper diff, which is simply what one costs. I get where the "r3vtard" thing comes from, even if it is a bit overused here. I was one for a long time, due either to being young & broke because I had not started a career yet, or because I was still in a "sick forum deallzzzzzz, buying new is for suckers" mindset. Overused or not, the term has its place.

Thats why you find one and just immediately rebuild it. From the ones I’ve done they are pretty easy to rebuild.

The problem I’m finding is like stated they are all getting up there in mileage and the oil ring for the clutch disc are becoming pretty worn from not having fluid changed regularly and they are not available new so your stuck buying a new unit just to rob parts off of or searching for the rings.

Some parts are worth just looking for used cause they aren’t really wear item and not important to the function of the car. Other parts its just laughable when you see people asking for a used one or even offering a used one.

[mitchlikesbikes]

This would be lemons field swap style; no reason why it wouldn’t work.

Roll out the open from a good unit and roll in the Lsd.

Still would be gambling on the Lsd being decent inside; but you can buy new internal clutch plates and steels from the Porsche parts counter.

Assuming the spiders aren’t fubar; it can live again. Bmw factory procedure would have one resetting the stack height to factory spec after making all damaged surfaces flat again.

Usually the top cap, center ramp friction surface to clutch plate will be not flat from abuse. You want things flat inside as they were designed to function via zf

This is what I did with mine. Swapped the lsd unit into an open 3.25 diff. Rebuilt the lsd with an extra clutch pack and new hardware. Inspected everything as well. Then Checked preload, backlash, and wear pattern. Everything checked out so I'm going to run it and I think I should be in good shape. Not exactly the "best" way to do things but for a budgetish garage build I think it's a solid way to go.

[e30davie]

I think its all getting a bit dramatic in here...

We are playing with 30yr old cars, EVERY part you buy is a gamble on its condition. But the upside is that you dont know if a part has been rebuilt in its life either. I've been pleasantly suprised on parts before, engines that were $200 that had obviously had a few $k spent on them not long before.

All you can do is inspect stuff as best you can before you buy it to ensure it is at least only just worn out and not destroyed, and then do your best to put it back into service for for use.

I've dealt with many old car diffs, older than e30 and GENERALLY the gears are OK and can be lapped and its just bearings and seals that go. and more times than not even the bearings are ok and its just seals.

If you get a shit one by chance, chalk it up as a learning experience and move on.

[Wanganstyle]

Thats why you find one and just immediately rebuild it. From the ones I’ve done they are pretty easy to rebuild.

The problem I’m finding is like stated they are all getting up there in mileage and the oil ring for the clutch disc are becoming pretty worn from not having fluid changed regularly and they are not available new so your stuck buying a new unit just to rob parts off of or searching for the rings.

Some parts are worth just looking for used cause they aren’t really wear item and not important to the function of the car. Other parts its just laughable when you see people asking for a used one or even offering a used one.

Rebuild means fitting new bearings; new crush washer and adjusting the stack to Oem specifications. Without factory instructions this isn’t happening

If you are just throwing in parts in a Lsd (extra parts) without proper setup you are actually making the car understeer and turn less good than it did from bmw

[ThatOneEuroE30]

Rebuild means fitting new bearings; new crush washer and adjusting the stack to Oem specifications. Without factory instructions this isn’t happening

If you are just throwing in parts in a Lsd (extra parts) without proper setup you are actually making the car understeer and turn less good than it did from bmw

Well duh....... where did i say i wasn’t? When i rebuild its new bearings, clutches, dog ears. Setting the pinion pre load and back lash. I’ve just noticed that the oil rings with the waffle pattern have become worn over the years and its hard to find ones that dont have grooves in them. Anything less then what i stated isnt a rebuild its throwing parts at an old worn diff.