R3VLimited Forums

Go Back   R3VLimited Forums > E30 Technical Forums > Suspension & Unsprung > 5 Lug Conversions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-14-2018, 10:45 PM   #16
e30davie
E30 Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by wazzu70 View Post
In general camber impacts your tire contact patch through the range of motion. Castor impacts your high speed stability and ability to return to center.
Castor also gives you more camber as you turn the wheel, so its all connected.
e30davie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2018, 12:33 AM   #17
alistairolsen
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Aberdeen, UK
Posts: 189
The fundamental issue is that it's touted on "the internet" as the proper solution, but the measure of that seems to be whether it gives the correct wheel position in the arch/well rather than whether it actually provides proper suspension motions.

Unfortunately it's not cheap to acquire the parts, but it would be good if someone could take some accurate measurements so that the motions could be modelled for the good of the community.
alistairolsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2018, 03:01 AM   #18
george graves
I waste 90% of my day here and all I got was this stupid title
 
george graves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 19,860
I'll interject this jem. Any change you make to suspension setting will have an effect. Good in one way, bad in another. There is no MAGIC suspension that does all, is all, and be all.

You can't say that the placement of 96+ e36 arms "ruins" the suspension. For one, you're assuming the e30 suspension is "the best EVER as stock" and two....What's the goal? You need to clarify that first.

This book is a great starting point. https://www.amazon.com/How-Make-Your.../dp/0912656468 It's super old school, but a great read.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt-B View Post
hey does anyone know anyone who gets upset and makes electronics?
george graves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2018, 05:28 AM   #19
alistairolsen
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Aberdeen, UK
Posts: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by george graves View Post
I'll interject this jem. Any change you make to suspension setting will have an effect. Good in one way, bad in another. There is no MAGIC suspension that does all, is all, and be all.

You can't say that the placement of 96+ e36 arms "ruins" the suspension. For one, you're assuming the e30 suspension is "the best EVER as stock" and two....What's the goal? You need to clarify that first.

This book is a great starting point. https://www.amazon.com/How-Make-Your.../dp/0912656468 It's super old school, but a great read.
I'm not saying or assuming anything of the sort, so please don't put words in my mouth.

I fully sppreciate that all suspension is a compromise. Mac struts especially so. I read that book a while back, along with:

https://www.amazon.com/Race-Rally-Ca.../dp/1859608469

https://www.amazon.com/Racing-Sports.../dp/0837602963

https://www.amazon.com/Competition-C.../dp/185960644X

https://www.amazon.com/Chassis-Engin.../dp/1557880557

And numerous other papers, articles and builds online when I was building a kit car and modifying my track car, so please dont waltz into a thread with a patronising tone

What I wanted to try to understand when I posted this is whether it is likely to give acceptable motion curves for road use (to offer performance at least as good as the original arrangement). The answer I got basically suggested no one had ever looked into it. Every thread I've seen on the subject says "it's fine" before quantifying that with a picture of the wheel in the middle of the arch. I've yet to even see a static alignment sheet, let alone camber and to in bump and droop, roll centre heights etc.

On that basis, I wasnt prepared to shell out £500 on the parts with no confidence they would offer an improvement to, or even match the existing arrangement.

In an ideal world, both setups need to be measured, modelled and the outcomes compared, however without both setups available this is impossible.
alistairolsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2018, 09:27 AM   #20
kronus
R3V OG
 
kronus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: fan franfisco
Posts: 12,676
To answer your specific question, I don’t think the math has been done and clearly communicated quite yet.

You are right that what most people do is try to center the wheel and leave it at that.

It might be fruitful to get in touch in Ground Control; they sell a hybrid e30/e36 strut that has some modifications. I don’t know the specifics, but presumably they’ve put nonzero thought into how the setup should work performance-wise.
__________________
cars beep boop
kronus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2018, 02:49 PM   #21
wazzu70
E30 Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 1,087
The GC kit puts the strut housing in the proper angle to match the E30s upper mounting point. If you look at the two suspensions you will see the E30 shock tower mount is further back and the E36 more vertical.

When you put E36 struts in an E30 you have to “tilt them back” so they can mount in the strut bearing.
__________________
-Nick

M42 on VEMS
wazzu70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2018, 02:19 AM   #22
george graves
I waste 90% of my day here and all I got was this stupid title
 
george graves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 19,860
Quote:
Originally Posted by alistairolsen View Post
I'm not saying or assuming anything of the sort, so please don't put words in my mouth.
That wasn't aimed at you broski. Just in general. Take a chill pill.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt-B View Post
hey does anyone know anyone who gets upset and makes electronics?
george graves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 02:27 AM   #23
alistairolsen
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Aberdeen, UK
Posts: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by kronus View Post
To answer your specific question, I donít think the math has been done and clearly communicated quite yet.

You are right that what most people do is try to center the wheel and leave it at that.

It might be fruitful to get in touch in Ground Control; they sell a hybrid e30/e36 strut that has some modifications. I donít know the specifics, but presumably theyíve put nonzero thought into how the setup should work performance-wise.
Yeah I realised that and gave up on the idea not long after posting this thread, but then someone else brought it back to life. One day someone may compare them, but for now I'd rather spend the money on some wheels that fit correctly than suspension components that probably dont.
alistairolsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2004 - 2020 R3VLimited LLC