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Old 01-12-2019, 09:57 AM   #2416
cale
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victims
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victim
I'm so glad I don't think like this.
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Old 01-12-2019, 10:19 AM   #2417
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People should have savings, sure, but losing income over a political point being made too also sucks. I get both sides of this.
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Old 01-12-2019, 10:20 AM   #2418
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Maybe we take a look and see that many government entities are completely unnecessary in the first place? Maybe?

Nah. Repubs and Dems both love big .gov
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:18 AM   #2419
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I'm not missing any issue mrSleeve. My point is vey simple and you missed it. People work. People get paid.
If my employer misses a pay date. it happens very rarely, and only by a couple days. If my employer stops paying me, I am going to stop working for them.... A govt EMPLOYEE has the same rights to quit and take their skills else where.

Plus these are govt employees, they will get the back pay they are due, they ARE NOT LOSING out on a pay check, pay being delayed sucks no matter the reason, but should not be this debilitating to responsible adults.

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Period. There's no other discussion. I am glad for you that you are financially successfull and could spend 6 months without pay and not getting hurt. Not everyone is in your shoes. So stop blaming the victims of Trump's shutdown. And stop blaming them for being poor. And stop always referring back to your "financial success"...
Your right most people are not in my shoes, and there is whole host of reasons for why they are not. My "success" as you have put it, is nothing more than trading what we "WANT right now" for what we "might NEED in the Future". Its a lesson I had to lean the hard way when I was younger, and had dig my self out of.

Of course being off payroll for a fucking year hurt, its a year of lost income, its a year of lost pension contributions, a year of lost investment contributions, it was a huge chunk of savings pulled out that had to be replenished before money could diverted back to the brokerage accounts . That year off pay roll likely will cost me 3 or 4 times what we used from savings in the end likely more. It nearly cost us qualifying for the mortgage that we bought the home we have now with.

"Poor" is a subjective term, to many of the people around where I live, my annual income is "walkin around money for the week" , and to a many others we are loaded.

Again I am not blaming anyone but the Politics of division and the idiots in charge of Both the House and the big white house. People being caught in the middle is unfortunate, but you trying to blame just 1 portion of the idiots in DC for this is misplaced at best.



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It is getting very annoying because, you know (or maybe not) but there are piss poor people in Murika who work two or three jobs and still find it hard to end a month.
Your partisan hackery is getting annoying as well. I know people that work 2 jobs and still struggle, I have a friend that cant work, and lives in a old camper parked next another friends shop and lives on maybe 1000 bucks a month on a good month. He is one of the happiest, well adjusted, people I have ever met. He refuses to let any of us "help him" unless he can do work for us.


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"should" is not a useful term when they're going to stop getting paid before the end of january, and it's not "moving the goalposts" to give more than one example of someone getting buttfucked by the shutdown.
We are talking about employees, not enlisted men (or would persons keep from triggering you?). There is a huge difference and you know it. Goal post relocation attempt still detected.

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also, CG falls under DHS, not DoD.
Right this is why they are the only branch of ENLISTED people getting a delayed check, this go around. Still agree with you, as enlisted men and have little ability for alternate income generation, when on a boat scraping sludge and barnacles off a buoy someplace SHOULD BE GETTING their pay.

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Originally Posted by decay
what about air traffic controllers? they're working for no pay right now, in violation of their union contract. pretty arguable that they're an important part of our country's infrastructure.
Every union contract I have had says if a pay check is missed there is X or XX number of days to get it corrected. I am private sector so ATC's contract verbiage may differ, but making the assumption its similar we are just getting started with the missed check "correction period" today.

You want to see this shut down end in less than 2 hours. ALL the ATC's stand together and walk out. and gridlock everything from Amazon to USPS and EVERYTHING .......................

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Originally Posted by decay
what about ICE and Border Patrol, the organizations that are supposed to be *catching* these "mass migrations"?
Again very well paid people that should have a little cash in the bank to cover for emergencies. If there is a GOOD fence, they can concentrate their efforts to where there is not a fence and catch more people breaking the law.
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:22 PM   #2420
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Mr. Sleeve multi quotes with the best of them.

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Old 01-12-2019, 01:16 PM   #2421
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We are talking about employees, not enlisted men (or would persons keep from triggering you?). There is a huge difference and you know it. Goal post relocation attempt still detected.
coast guard *are* employees. of DHS. not military. so, no goalpost-moving. we're talking about the same thing, you just don't want to acknowledge it because you have an idea that happens to be incorrect. die on that hill if you want to, i've already seen the inside of it.

Quote:
Every union contract I have had says if a pay check is missed there is X or XX number of days to get it corrected. I am private sector so ATC's contract verbiage may differ, but making the assumption its similar we are just getting started with the missed check "correction period" today.
here, i even bothered to find the story from a source you maybe won't hate.

https://insider.foxnews.com/2019/01/...hts-violations

Quote:
You want to see this shut down end in less than 2 hours. ALL the ATC's stand together and walk out. and gridlock everything from Amazon to USPS and EVERYTHING .......................
i like how in the rare cases when you agree with my point you still have to act like you're the one who came up with it.

Quote:
Again very well paid people that should have a little cash in the bank to cover for emergencies. If there is a GOOD fence, they can concentrate their efforts to where there is not a fence and catch more people breaking the law.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...es/2550685002/

three tunnels in one month, in one city, where there's already a wall.
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Old 01-12-2019, 01:39 PM   #2422
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Sleeve, it seems your ego is blinding you to the obvious. Your statement of "if I can do it anyone can" is the ultimate example of this. Your making the assumption that everyone has had the same opportunities, background and upbringing. Thats just patently false.

You also state you "dug yourself out", while glossing over all the help you got. This is most glaring with the whole part of "having" to live in a rv, or your inlaws basement. Truth is you didn't have to, you got to. For millions of americans those options aren't available. If they miss rent, or a mortgage payment they're homeless. You got lucky that people were kind and generous enough to lend you help, opening their homes, lives, and check books for you. Dismissing their help as you sacrificing is dishonest. It's the Craig t Nelson thought process. As in his infamous saying "I was on welfare and food stamps, and nobody helped me". You need to learn empathy.

Yes people do need to take some responsibility for their finances. But your assuming again that everyone has the same financial knowledge or ability. Just look at the average american financial iq. It's terrible. And it's not like schools teach it, short of college.

We all know that wages have stayed stagnant for decades while costs of everything has gone up. Is that the workers fault or those in charge of the system?

I'm beginning to think that the main difference between the left and right is simply down to what each side thinks America is. Those on the right seem to think America is the flag, the constitution, bill of rights, and all the other symbols. That those are the things that must be protected, that their what makes America great. Where as the left seem to think it's the people. And that if the majority of the people aren't doing great, then the countries not doing great. I feel the right would be ok if the vast majority of the country was a run down shit hole as long as their gated community was ok. And from the looks of things that's where we're heading.

Oh yeah, your wrong for sure on the back pay part. Their not guaranteed back pay, it has to be approved by Congress and signed by the president first. Congress already did their part, it's waiting on trump to sign. What are the odds he'll hold that as ransom. And sorry, but when he goes on tv and stated he would take responsibility and be proud to shut the government down, it's solely on him. After all he's in charge. It's truly sad the right is ok with causing actual harm to american citizens for a political stunt.
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Old 01-12-2019, 02:12 PM   #2423
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Why is it Most Governors, Mayors & Sheriffs in border states & counties say they would not want to spend money given to them for walls?

Perhaps because there are already barriers in the way of incursion?
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:12 PM   #2424
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I'm so glad I don't think like this.
well you have the luxury. your government hasn't just thrown about a million federal employees under the bus, right at the end of the holiday season. i'm not personally affected- finances still secure.

thinking that it sucks for those who *are* affected is called "empathy".

the fact that a lot of the people who've been furloughed and are uber drivers now, or are being forced to work without pay, and were already doing the job this wall is supposed to solve, is called "irony".

i'll expect your homework on these two concepts tomorrow morning.
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:25 PM   #2425
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Explain this to me:

Trump says we need the wall to secure the country.

Closing the government puts out of work or forces to work without pay Homeland Security under which umbrella falls the Coast Guard, thereby reducing security.

Or am I missing something?
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:16 PM   #2426
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thinking that it sucks for those who *are* affected is called "empathy".
I'm plenty capable of being empathetic for people going through tough times. I'm just not willing to call people who chose to take govt jobs, who know these sorts of things happen, victims. Everyone's a victim these days, despite these people likely being told about this potential situation when they joined.
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:41 PM   #2427
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Yeah, altar boys aren't victims either.
I mean, they're Catholic, they knew what they were in for when they signed up.
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:51 PM   #2428
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It should ONLY be the responsibility of the individual to figure this out. If you can't hopefully friends and family will come along to help teach, possibly contribute financially. But don't make this anyone else's problem.
See there it is, "hopefully friends and family will come along to help teach, and possibly contribute financially." The difference here between the right and the left in this discussion is the definition of "friends and family". People, the American public, as a whole need to get this idea out of their heads that those they personally don't know are the enemy. We, together, are the American populace, we are "friends and family", despite not knowing each other on a personal level. We share a common bond, being American citizens, loving America. This ties us all together, so when someone talks about helping out others that have fallen down (and I'm going far beyond those affected by the shutdown because you guys have turned that into a snooze fest), it is the responsibility of every American citizen to help set that person on their feet again.

A common humanity, that's what we all share as well as citizenship in this country, empathy should go far beyond this dumb shutdown business, but the powers that be have convinced so many of you that it's better to separate yourself, to be an individual, to prove that you are worthy and others are not. Why? Because the only strength is in numbers, power to the people doesn't happen if we don't believe each person is deserving of America's bounty.
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:38 PM   #2429
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^ Fine call it community. Same difference. But you cannot mandate help or distribution of wealth. That is socialism which I will fight tooth and nail.

As far as common humanity. It doesn't exist. It's a loose term that feels good and let's people define as they see fit.

So as far as helping get the government going again, it's easy (in theory), take out the trash and get people in power that don't turn monstrous on it like Cuomo or Newsom. However California again shows their self-loathing and short term memory voting for an adulterer and Browns next stain.

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Old 01-13-2019, 04:50 AM   #2430
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Are these adults or toddlers in these govt jobs?
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