Thoughts on my audio upgrade please

[s1uma1]

Want to achieve smooth/warm sound. Don't like harsh. Don't need crazy precision or studio-like sounds. More interested in musicality.

Two options


1) My own piece together system:

Head unit:
Kenwood Excelon x701

Amp:
DSL reference DLS cc-44 (4x 85 running Focal mids and tweeters)
DSL reference DLS cc-500 (600 @ 2ohm)
Headunit powering rear fill

Speakers:
Front: Focal PS 130 F
Rear: some coaxials just for fill
Sub: Image Dynamics IDQ10 (2ohm) in a Lukebox

2) Audio shop recommendation

Head unit:
Kenwood x701

Amp:
JLHD900 (4 channels to front 2-ways, 1 channel to sub)
Headunit powering rear fill

Speakers:
Front: Focal PS 130 F
Rear: some coaxials just for fill
Sub: JL 10W3 in a Lukebox



Any thought/suggestions?

Thanks!

[HerbE30]

Mostly seems as if the audio store is plugging you for JL products. Which I have never been a fan of.

Also I really don't believe you will be able to fit those Focal in the front... NOT SURE! but I would like to know. You would need a smaller mounting depth I want to say. Once again, not sure if they will fit. I would measure first.

Our taste seem somewhat different and you are a classier man than I, so I won't recommend anything for you.

But this is R3V, so here is my only suggestion.

If you are unsure about a sub though, I would suggest Sundown SA-10 (if you want a 10 imch) They have been good names in SQL.

[s1uma1]

Thanks for the feedback.

I've narrowed down my components to

HU: kenwood excelon x701
Front: Morel Tempo Ultra 502 (might need spacer for adequate depth)
Rear: Morel Tempo Integra 502
Sub: IDQ10
Amp: Arc Audio XDI 1100.5


i think that will give a warm/smooth tone...

[bmwman91]

Here are some thoughts, based on my experience. The overall thing to note is that this is waaaaay too much money to be spending (which should be seen as good news, because you can do better for less).

Head Unit: Seems OK. Relatively cheap. I would (almost) never consider spending more than $200 on an aftermarket HU. Having taken apart a dozen of them, down to the PCB, I can say with confidence that they are all basically the same: built with so-so parts that get the job done. All of the various features and whatnot that higher-end models claim to have are just software...the actual electronics are almost always identical. If you want a more OEM look, check out some of the Continental head units. They look nice and boring (OEM) while being reasonably priced (more than this Kenwood one, but still not too bad) and have all the modern features you might want. The radio bands might differ slightly since they are for EU cars, but just double check the specs.

Front speakers: WAY too much money for drivers with stamped steel frames. Morel does make good stuff, but like many companies, their "car audio" stuff just rides on their good name and is grossly overpriced. Here are a couple of suggestions:
1) https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...osound-system/
2) https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...nd-2-way-pair/
2 docs) http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZA5/ (scroll down to the part about the auto kit for full details)

Option 1 should (I think) fit fine, but you will want to check dimensions. Option 2 might take a little more work, but it uses slightly better drivers. Both of these have much higher quality drivers than anything you will find in the usual car-audio places for under $700. Also, you can actually trust the specs for these kits, whereas car-audio specs are usually heavily embellished.

Also note that the tweeters in the Zaph kit can be modified to fit into the stock tweeter pods. Check out my build thread from long ago for details (custom setup, but I used the same tweeters):
Round 1: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=170725
Round 2: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=339298

Rear Speakers: Honestly, just forget about them. There's no need for rears...you probably don't listen to music with speakers behind you at home. A good stereo setup is all you need, seriously. This also eliminates 2 amplifier channels (OR, frees you up to roll with an actively crossed over setup for the front woofers+tweeters).

Sub: Too much money for a sub with a stamped steel frame. Most of that price is just brand name. Check out the Alpine SWR-10D4. It is built much more sturdily, costs less and is probably going to "hit harder" to use a phrase that I hate lol.

Amp: Way too much money. I have also taken apart a number of car amps. They are all made with the same components, probably in the same factory overseas. The differences are almost entirely cosmetic. When it comes to amps, ignore the silly THD+N figures. Yeah yeah 0.00001% distortion...my ass. That is a useless number, and it most likely refers to distortion at a single frequency and single power level into a perfectly resistive load, both selected for minimum noise. Distortion varies with frequency and power, and you will probably never find this published for these types of amps because it is going to be much closer to 1% in real-world conditions. The good news is...who cares? Road+engine noise on the highway is going to be 60-80dB, so your signal to noise ratio in the car is crap anyway, so spend zero time worrying about noise specs on car amps. If you have an amp that makes an audible amount of whine, static or other nonsense it is because the amp is damaged or your wiring is bad.

There are a few routes to go with the amp. The variables are:
1) Whether or not the head unit has pre-amp outputs (the Kenwood one does, but some of the Continental ones do not). If no pre-amp outputs, then just find an amp with line level inputs or use a line level converter (LC6i by AudioControl, for example)
2) Speaker kit. If you use a kit with passive crossovers, then that simplifies any active crossover needs since the amp will just need a LPF/HPF for the sub and 2-way kit. If you piece together tweeters and mids, then you can either buy a stand-alone active crossover, or find an amp with low/high crossover options.

If you are going to use a HU with pre-amp outputs and a 2-way kit with passive crossover, then here are a couple of good value options.

https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_67768_Rockford-Fosgate-Punch-P400X4.html

https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_40254_NVX-JAD800.4.html

The RF one is a class AB amp, which is an old tried-and-true amplifier topology. The NVX one is a class D amp. Both topologies are pretty mature at this point (AB has been around longer in the audio world). Class D is much more efficient in terms of power loss (heat generation), which generally means that it will be smaller than an equivalent class AB amp. Early Class-D amps were not really suited for mids/highs due to switching noise issues, but the technology has come a long way and you can now find hi-fi class D amps all over (also, Apple uses class D amps in all of its computers and phones). Personally, I would give the NVX one a shot. I have no experience with this amp, but as far as I can tell the only major difference relating to price is brand name these days. Both of these can be set up in a "3-way" configuration, and have integrated active crossovers. So the front channels would have a HPF enabled and set to ~100Hz, with the rear channels bridged for the mono sub and the LPF set at ~100Hz.

Sure, the Arc Audio one you are considering has much more output power quoted in its specs. The max RMS (continuous) SPL that you will get with the recommended driver kits is going to be 103-106dB, with peaks at ~110dB. The Morel drivers with their slightly higher power handling will only buy you 3-6dB more (based on their claimed higher sensitivity, which I am also skeptical about). The NVX amp I suggested can put out more power than any of these speakers can handle continuously anyway, so there's no need for more at that end. 103-106dB continuous, with 110dB peaks, is more then enough for a majority of people. Depending on how hard you want to run the mids, you may increase the HPF/LPF on the amp to 120-140Hz, and there are some notes about that on Madisound.

[jeffnhiscars]

^^^ he made all that up :-)

Honestly I may try that NVX in my cabrio just cause i think my CDLs need it. I do have rear coaxes but since you point out how useless they are would it make sesne to just leave them on the line feed ?

Great insight btw. I dont understand half the shit you write but I love reading it

[s1uma1]

Wow. That's crazy info. I tried reading your build thread and got lost pretty much with your first sentence. And then luke joined in and i was completely gone.

I've heard of building your own 2 ways, scanspeak drivers and rainbow drivers... i think for now, i'm gonna concentrate on fixing my antenna first. LOL

[bmwman91]

We all gotta start somewhere. If some of what I wrote does not make sense now, it will eventually. Learning is usually slower than anyone prefers! I did "tech talk" thread or two on here years ago about amplifiers and stuff. You can look up thread started by me in here and they should show up. Maybe I need to think about putting one together with general principles (THD+N, SPL, driver specs that actually matter, etc).

Basically, don't buy "high end" car audio stuff. It is the same as the "normal" stuff, but with silly bling bling logos and a price tag to match.

jeffnhiscars, I say leave the rears if you just have a head-unit powered setup in all 4 corners since they do provide a little more fill (which you need when using the wimpy power output of a head unit). If you have an amp to drive mids/tweeters up front, then just unhook the rears entirely.

[jeffnhiscars]

Would amping the fronts and leaving the rears on LF be a sin ?

[parkerbink]

I have the X701 in my cabrio and like it except the silly "equalizer" which is far too complicated.

[bmwman91]

Would amping the fronts and leaving the rears on LF be a sin ?

I wouldn't call it a sin or anything like that...I definitely do not subscribe to the "audio snobbery" school of thought, and in general I say "do what sounds good to you." It just happens that some things will end up sounding better for technical reasons, but the human brain is funny and just about anything will sound "good" once you get used to it. In fact, most people sort of dislike a system with a perfectly flat frequency response since they are more used to systems with boosted bass and treble (ever see a HU with a "Loud" button and find that you sort of like it? Look up Fletcher-Munson curves).

Mainly, I would spend zero dollars on anything having to do with rear speakers (other than a sub in the trunk obviously). I really cannot see much reason to keep the rears if you put in decent fronts since the rears are just going to make the overall frequency response of the system uneven. If you do not have a sub, then sure you could try using the rears for a little mid-bass fill, but by that point you are probably using a crossover/amp to send just the lower frequencies to them, and you might as well put in a sub then.

In a stock system, the rears do help to provide some lower frequency fill since the front kick panels are atrocious for lower frequencies. As far as I know, the stock systems are not low-pass filtered or anything, so they reproduce the full range of frequencies (which I wouldn't want them doing if I had nice fronts).

[Jean]

Good front stage (front speakers) and a sub can yield great sound....if you always have rear passengers then they perhaps would appreciate rear speakers (amped or not).

E30 sucks for sound though, front stock speaker locations are terrible.

[bmwman91]

Passengers in the rear? Sucks to be them! You gotta be riding shotgun to get in on the audio glory!

[b-rad]

Have not read most of the comments but here's mine.

I just use a JL Audio Blue Tooth Receiver.
(1) JL Audio 4ch HD600/4
(1) JL Audio 1ch HD750/1
(1) JL Audio ZR 6.5 component set
(1) JL Audio Subwoofer 10W6v3-D4
(1) HD-RLC Remote Volume knob

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qKalgoL9TmtoEASJ2

No rear speakers, you don't need them.
Better off spending more on the amp/speaker combo.
If you really want the head unit, then Alpine or Pioneer.

If I had to do it over again, I would install the 5.25 component set
A smaller 2ch amp and slightly larger 1ch for sub.
I bought a new car reciently FJ Cruiser, and have pulled the 2 nicer amps into that car and did just that, got a 2ch JL Audio XD200/2v2 and used the 2 way xover.
The E30 is becoming more of a track car and do not want to use a subwoofer box.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/FFk00ADb2rMjeo7l1

Brands I like:
JL Audio
Alpine
Hybrid Technologies
Precision Power, old stuff only
Back in the day, with 66 Mustang



@bradleydelliott (instagram)
bradleydelliott@gmail.com (youtube channel)