removable radiator support

[ForcedFirebird]

It takes about ten minutes to take the fenders off after the grill/lights are removed. Ten minutes of my time is worth not scratching the fenders, and all the benefits of doing it that way. Thanks for using mine as an example too! I used yours as a basic concept, and the factory dimension specs you posted really helped out a lot.

If you can have the front of an e30 off in 10mins, you're hired.

[Bearmw]

I can't see the fenders coming off/going on easily if you use seam sealer or a similar adhesive that was there originally. Not using sealer there leads to a sand/dirt/moisture trap.

[JGood]

I have, and it kind of sucked... Honestly, I feel it's TIG only territory, but an experienced MIG welder could possibly do it. The hardest part about the whole process is keeping everything square.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=250847&page=2

I do have a few tips in hind sight... Use a late model core support regardless of what year you have if you are replacing; it requires less modification due to not having the tow hooks and the notch already made for you. Honestly though, it was $250 shipped from blunt so just buy a new one, it's much nicer to work with. Also, make the tabs for the frame a bit bigger, mine are just a bit too small on the back side. You will also need to relocate the radiator mounting brackets, and that is not shown in my documenting. Overall it's pretty straight forward if you are intuitive and can visualize things well, but you need to be a good welder. It's too thin for an in-experienced welder to attempt. You also need to be careful about heat input to not warp the piece.


It takes about ten minutes to take the fenders off after the grill/lights are removed. Ten minutes of my time is worth not scratching the fenders, and all the benefits of doing it that way. Thanks for using mine as an example too! I used yours as a basic concept, and the factory dimension specs you posted really helped out a lot.

Yeah, for most people, pulling fenders off is no biggie. I have side skirts which are bolted and double side taped to the doors and fenders, so if I want to remove a fender, I have to peel off the skirt, scrape all the tape off (the hardest part), and put new tape on. Literally hours of work.

Maybe cutting and welding just isn't a big deal for me, but I didn't find it challenging at all. I'd say a welding noob could easily due it. It's all thick metal, probably 18 gauge, so you won't easily burn through. You have easy access and it's in an out of sight area. I barely knew how to turn on a welder when I did mine (hence the ugly welds). Not trying to be arguementive, but I'd hate to see someone not do it just because they weren't a professional welder.

[pantelones]

If you can have the front of an e30 off in 10mins, you're hired.

With tools out and in reach(or a gopher), yes I can. I'm looking for a job too...

I can't see the fenders coming off/going on easily if you use seam sealer or a similar adhesive that was there originally. Not using sealer there leads to a sand/dirt/moisture trap.

If I still had my 7d I would do a time lapse of it... Seriously? After the FINAL install seal with silicone. During the process you need to take the fenders off to remove the core support, so therefore the factory sealant is broken/removed. Also, to properly align the hood you may have to move the fenders; so again, this means breaking any seal you made.

Yeah, for most people, pulling fenders off is no biggie. I have side skirts which are bolted and double side taped to the doors and fenders, so if I want to remove a fender, I have to peel off the skirt, scrape all the tape off (the hardest part), and put new tape on. Literally hours of work.

I must have overlooked that when I was going though your build thread. That totally sucks, and I can see why that would be a deterrent.

Maybe cutting and welding just isn't a big deal for me, but I didn't find it challenging at all. I'd say a welding noob could easily due it. It's all thick metal, probably 18 gauge, so you won't easily burn through. You have easy access and it's in an out of sight area. I barely knew how to turn on a welder when I did mine (hence the ugly welds). Not trying to be arguementive, but I'd hate to see someone not do it just because they weren't a professional welder.

Well, I'll agree to disagree. I don't, and no other welder will agree that 18/20ga is thick. A lot of your welds I really wanted to say something about, but I didn't. Just because you can, does not mean you should. Welding is something that should be left to those who are 100% capable of doing it right the first time. Welding is not a joke, when the world trade centers fell, the blame was originally going to be pinned on the welders for half ass'ing their work. In most cases, if your weld fails you can legally be punished by the person who you did the work for, or whom was effected by the failure.

[JGood]

Well, I'll agree to disagree. I don't, and no other welder will agree that 18/20ga is thick. A lot of your welds I really wanted to say something about, but I didn't. Just because you can, does not mean you should. Welding is something that should be left to those who are 100% capable of doing it right the first time. Welding is not a joke, when the world trade centers fell, the blame was originally going to be pinned on the welders for half ass'ing their work. In most cases, if your weld fails you can legally be punished by the person who you did the work for, or whom was effected by the failure.

It might not be 'thick', but it's easy to weld, especially compared to 22-24.

When I was practicing welding, I'd do a butt joint and then flex/hammer it until it broke. None of my welds failed, the metal around them did. I have 15k miles on that car, and did all sorts of welding. Shorted strut housing, the entire wheel well, a quarter panel, the engine mounts, exhaust, etc... Not a single one is failing. Admittedly, the core support was one of my first projects and therefore the 'worst' welds, but they won't fail before the metal around them will.

[ForcedFirebird]

I'm still stuck on 10mins....

Takes that long to pull bumper on an untouched e30 - minimum.

[pantelones]

When I was practicing welding, I'd do a butt joint and then flex/hammer it until it broke. None of my welds failed, the metal around them did. I have 15k miles on that car, and did all sorts of welding. Shorted strut housing, the entire wheel well, a quarter panel, the engine mounts, exhaust, etc... Not a single one is failing. Admittedly, the core support was one of my first projects and therefore the 'worst' welds, but they won't fail before the metal around them will.

This is exactly my point... The difference between a real welder, and a hobby welder is the understanding of the metallurgy behind the process. A proper weld should fail with the material, not because of the weld... The test I did in my thread is a decent example of how the material should react. JGood you're a great fabricator and a decent welder, and I am not trying to take that away from you. There is a lot of terrible welding on this forum, and it just bugs the shit out me... /rant

[pantelones]

I'm still stuck on 10mins....

Takes that long to pull bumper on an untouched e30 - minimum.

I think we have a miss understanding of the task at hand... I'm talking about taking the fenders, inner-wells and front valance off, or putting them on. No hood or front bumper; basically the extra work involved with the bolts on the outside for the upper mount.

[JGood]

This is exactly my point... The difference between a real welder, and a hobby welder is the understanding of the metallurgy behind the process. A proper weld should fail with the material, not because of the weld... The test I did in my thread is a decent example of how the material should react. JGood you're a great fabricator and a decent welder, and I am not trying to take that away from you. There is a lot of terrible welding on this forum, and it just bugs the shit out me... /rant

I didn't word that correctly apparently. The metal didn't fail in the effected heat zone when I was beating it up for testing either.

I'm not a fabricator, nor a welder, I'm a telecom tech. But I know how to MIG weld.

I just think going around posting that welding some simple mounting tabs onto a core support of a 25 year old car should only be done by a professional welder is a bit ridiculous. Almost anybody can do this with basic MIG skills, IMO.

But as you said, we can agree to disagree. I've been very happy with the thousands of welds on my stiff suspension, 300hp drivetrain, and 300k mile body. Maybe someday the whole thing will implode and kill kittens and babies, in which case I'll feel like an ass.

[JGood]

I had my core support out the other day to throw my new engine in, and figured I'd take a pic of the lower brackets, just to show exactly what I did, for those considering it. It's welded at the 90 degree junction where the tab sticks out, and on all three sides where it's attached to the side of the core support. Again, take it for what it is, obviously I'm not a professional welder, fabricator, or anything automotive for that matter. But seeing as how the factory mounts are a few spot welds, I am fairly confident that my brackets do not make it any weaker then it was from the factory.

[marshallnoise]

Thanks for posting those up JGood.

[sticksdaman]

Has anyone thought of offering this as a service to enthusiasts? With the increase of cross chassis engine swaps, I think this would be a great option for those who dont have access to space/tools to complete this job on their own.

I know I for sure would be interested in this as I am recently in need of a rad support replacement and it only makes sense to make it removable since it is virtually the same amount of effort.

[marshallnoise]

I am sure someone could offer it to enthusiasts but it would be expensive. You have seen the pictures. Just drilling out the spot welds is a couple hour task in and of itself. Add on top of that the fabrication of the ears and nuts/bolts. It will probably be a 5 hour job all said and done.

Then you have the problem of a limited clientele in a given area. Perhaps a speed shop could do it as a service or part of an engine swap.

The thing just lends itself to DIY.

[sticksdaman]

^ great point.

I think if there was a large enough demand, it may be possible to pre make plates? May make it easier to bolt on the new support?

That being said... if theres anyone in the tri state area *cough* JGood *cough* with some fab skills/experience...

[Mistawall]

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=316126 this guy made a removable support documented it pretty well check it out.