Time to stop contributing to your own retirment?

[mrsleeve]

h0lmes dammit you are fool and patsy,

The IRS will is the punisher in this Bull shit thing, the IRS will be the ones to determine if you have a GOVT approved health care plan each month, and then fine you accordingly if you dont. Oh dont want to pay or cant afford to pay that fine, thats ok, the IRS will just take it outta your pay check before you even see it, or outta your Govt benefits check or tax refunds.

[LBJefferies]

The IRS is not making any medical decisions. I have no idea where you heard that but you are just plain wrong.

[HarryPotter]

The IRS is not making any medical decisions. I have no idea where you heard that but you are just plain wrong.

Who the fuck said they were making medical decisions? They are making sure you have H.I!! What the fuck don't you get about that? You're just like my ignorant friends who think this is all good and dandy cause they don't live in the real world. I bet you live at home with mummy and daddy still don't you?

[LBJefferies]

Who the fuck said they were making medical decisions? They are making sure you have H.I!! What the fuck don't you get about that? You're just like my ignorant friends who think this is all good and dandy cause they don't live in the real world. I bet you live at home with mummy and daddy still don't you?

Did you read JohnWoo's posts?

I think it's funny how many of you fools are calling this government health care when it's still 100% private.

[HarryPotter]

Did you read JohnWoo's posts?

I think it's funny how many of you fools are calling this government health care when it's still 100% private.

This is just the beginning. They want to make it a single payer option such as the system in canada. They can't just eliminate the private insurers over night... And it's not technically gov run it's completely controlled by gov, such as you must purchase H.I or else pay a fine. How does anyone figure that to be right? You need car insurance, but you are not forced to buy it or be penalized through the IRS.

[LBJefferies]

This is just the beginning. They want to make it a single payer option such as the system in canada. They can't just eliminate the private insurers over night... And it's not technically gov run it's completely controlled by gov, such as you must purchase H.I or else pay a fine. How does anyone figure that to be right? You need car insurance, but you are not forced to buy it or be penalized through the IRS.

I don't disagree that a single payer government system would be terrible. But like I have said already, this isn't government health care. It is still 100% private.

Oh and z31maniac, individuals can get subsidies as well.

[M-technik-3]

Already talk of a repeal of the bill in the works. If you don't like the idea of managed health care write the people you elected into office. Say your piece and wait to hear back from them if they don't give the answer you like vote some one else in.

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Have wrote to my reps 2 time a month for a long time now. Dose not do any good since the Father of this thing Max Bacus is the Senior senator for my state and the other one is his little yes man lap dog. My congressional rep on the other hand has been opposed to this from the get go. Needless to say going to do what I can to fire the senators in 3 years.

But like I have said already, this isn't government health care. It is still 100% private.
.

Ok then how about the 32m more people shoved into the medicare program (govt is the payer we have explained to you why this is bad), and giving the IRS (a fed Govt agency) enforcement powers, and the GOVT (you know the govt we have been talking about) now gets to decide what is appropriate H.C. for the private system to offer.

HOW IS THAT NOT A GOVT TAKE OVER OF THE H.C. SYSTEM. Sure seems like a awful lot of govt in a private enterprise to me.

[z31maniac]

I don't disagree that a single payer government system would be terrible. But like I have said already, this isn't government health care. It is still 100% private.

Oh and z31maniac, individuals can get subsidies as well.

If the gov't dictates what the insurance has to cover and what the services cost, how is it NOT gov't controlled Healthcare? Many of the new rules just make people eligible for Medicare that weren't before. You remember? The bankrupt gov't run health plan already?


Not at my income level.

[LBJefferies]

If the gov't dictates what the insurance has to cover and what the services cost, how is it NOT gov't controlled Healthcare? Many of the new rules just make people eligible for Medicare that weren't before. You remember? The bankrupt gov't run health plan already?


Not at my income level.

The government is not dictating prices, that is still being left to the market. They are saying that people cannot be turned down for preexisting conditions and there is no lifetime cap. These are GOOD things. Do you want to be denied insurance because of a preexisting condition or because you have reached your lifetime limit? Ironically, the insurance companies have always done this, it's called rationing. Glen Beck might have explained it to you as if it's some Nazi euthanasia program, but I am sure he conveniently left out the fact that it has always been done.

The only place where this whole government, irs, socialist, 1984 bullshit holds any weight is in the mandate. However, I think it's pretty irrelevant. Everybody is going to buy insurance regardless so it really doesn't matter. As long as you purchase insurance the irs can't touch you. Anybody who can't afford insurance outright is going to be given tax subsidies so that they can afford it. I don't see anything wrong with this.

[mrsleeve]

The government is not dictating prices, that is still being left to the market. They are saying that people cannot be turned down for preexisting conditions and there is no lifetime cap.

The little woman had a preexisting condition (minor hormonal issues) and has been treated for depression in the last 10 years. Yes when you buy on the open market they go through you medical records and anything you have been treated for in the last 5-10 is a preexisting condition that they dont have to pay for, till the initial period is over. Unless you have had coverage with no more than a 60 day lapse then they cover everything as if you have been with them all along.

Next As far as I know, and is true in every state myself or family has lived in, there are pools of guaranteed acceptance H.I. that you can buy into as a individual, that cover you preexisting conditions, but there is a hitch, they are expensive, this is just whats going to happen with the whole system now that we have H.I. reform it will get even more expensive.

Oh you care to know what the little woman's HI premium is 534 a month or 6400 a year. I make a good living, but I cant even begin to think how some one that is not as fortunate as myself is going to be able to afford that when they are already strapped keeping a roof over their heads, food on the table, and the heat on, but make enough to not get the tax break.

These are GOOD things. Do you want to be denied insurance because of a preexisting condition or because you have reached your lifetime limit? Ironically, the insurance companies have always done this, it's called rationing. Glen Beck might have explained it to you as if it's some Nazi euthanasia program, but I am sure he conveniently left out the fact that it has always been done. .

Umm life time max is for the one policy, you just open a new policy, granted it will be expensive but you do what you have to.

Yes they have no one denies these things, its the dark side of keeping you me and everyone else healthy.

Your not denied or coverage like I have said before, you either wait the 6-18 months till those things are covered, or you get into one of the guaranteed acceptance programs. Or you do the responsible thing, you have enough money saved up, to make your self payments for a while if you lose your job so you dont have the coverage lapse of more than 60 days.

[Wiglaf]

might as well close this thread and start over.
Is it possible to discuss how to make social security not fail without it detonating from healthcare debate ammo?

[mrsleeve]

might as well close this thread and start over.
Is it possible to discuss how to make social security not fail without it detonating from healthcare debate ammo?

Nope, to many similarities between them and this latest's BS is a snap shot of where we are going.

[z31maniac]

The government is not dictating prices, that is still being left to the market. They are saying that people cannot be turned down for preexisting conditions and there is no lifetime cap. These are GOOD things. Do you want to be denied insurance because of a preexisting condition or because you have reached your lifetime limit? Ironically, the insurance companies have always done this, it's called rationing. Glen Beck might have explained it to you as if it's some Nazi euthanasia program, but I am sure he conveniently left out the fact that it has always been done.

The only place where this whole government, irs, socialist, 1984 bullshit holds any weight is in the mandate. However, I think it's pretty irrelevant. Everybody is going to buy insurance regardless so it really doesn't matter. As long as you purchase insurance the irs can't touch you. Anybody who can't afford insurance outright is going to be given tax subsidies so that they can afford it. I don't see anything wrong with this.

They already do with Medicare and Medicaid, and many of the newly insured are just going to fall into those two programs. Adding more people to an unstainable system, sounds like a recipe for success, doesn't it?


And as far as your second part, no people won't. There are many articles out there illustrating how for many people, it will be cheaper to pay the fine when they are healthy. And no since pre-existing conditions can't be denied, people will just buy coverage when they get sick, then drop it again after they are well.

My employer will pay something like a $2000 fine for not offering my healthcare, that would be much cheaper than keeping me on insurance, and now I've just been dropped into the pool.


Get over your "moral obligation" arguments and idealistic talking points and do some research on the bill.

[ck_taft325is]

So to sum it all up... h0lmes here is an idiot?