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    So the only reason to my question thus far is an assumption that they under report leaks? I imagine reporting the quantity of a leak is an educated estimate. That said, in my little industry, if we have a spill over 20gal of a petrolium based product it must be reported within 15min to the national hotline. Then containment must be immediate. After containment, the cleanup can begin. However, the job is not finished until the proper authorities, for us EPA or DEP tests to confirm the spill has been properly cleaned and all waste has been dispossed of accordingly. The quantity really doesnt affect the testing to confirm that all steps have been completed. Wether we should spill 20 or 2000 gal of product it only affect the amount of material and cost of cleanup. The soil or water must still pass the same ppm thresholds.

    I try to see both sides of the coin. I just dont see the logic in a blanket opposition. It sort of discounts the opinion to me.

    I totally am for preventing leaks. Replacing old pipe seems perfectly logical to me. I am sure it has a lifespan as all structures do. Are their no regulations for replacment of pipe after x number of years?

    Above ground piping wouldnt concern me as its fairly straight forward to cleanup. Oil is actually pretty easy to remidiate, as it isnt dissolved into water, at least on the surface. I dont know how it interacts with H2O underground. Maybee sleave has some knowledge of how it is remediated if leaked underground into an aquifer.

    Would paying for, and building an R.O. plant for drinking water for the standing rock situation not only provide clean water but also ensure it for them if their ever were a leak? It would only cost a few million which is a small price in the scope of the project. That would seem to be a practical comprimise to me for both parties.

    All that said, I clearly am not against pipelines if done correctly with proper instalation done by licensed professionals. However, I would not be thrilled about one running by my backyard. I actually worry more about groundwater contamination from the farms that used to be on the property where my home and the developments around where I live. I dont worry as much about the current farms practices, but what their practices were 20+ yrs ago. Also the fact groundwater here is about 5ft below surface means many chemicals can quickly leach into aquifers.
    Last edited by naplesE30; 12-13-2016, 06:37 PM.

    Comment


      Originally posted by marshallnoise View Post
      Not sure how that qualifies you to understand what authoritarians are.
      would it surprise you to learn that the US Army is kind of an authoritarian environment?
      past:
      1989 325is (learner shitbox)
      1986 325e (turbo dorito)
      1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
      1985 323i baur
      current:
      1995 M3 (suspension, 17x9/255-40, borla)

      Comment


        Originally posted by decay View Post
        would it surprise you to learn that the US Army is kind of an authoritarian environment?
        And that makes you hypersensitive to what you perceive as authoritarian. You seem to still operate in that mindset. I think, maybe, you aren't against authoritarians if they share your views.
        Si vis pacem, para bellum.

        New Hawtness: 1995 540i/6 Claptrap
        Defunct too: Cirrusblau m30 Project
        Defunct (sold): Alta Vista

        79 Bronco SHTF Build

        Comment


          Originally posted by marshallnoise View Post
          And that makes you hypersensitive to what you perceive as authoritarian. You seem to still operate in that mindset.
          as a person who tries to pay attention to self-awareness, i will admit there is some truth in there.

          but given that the ruling class in america is definitely a thing that exists- and that absolutely does not involve the left/right conversation to me- hillary and barbara boxer are all going to the same cocktail parties as trump and cheney's wife- you can find pictures of this

          do you think i am wrong to feel this way?

          i hope you understand- i've worked really hard since i got out of the army, and i've achieved some success, and i have the resources to do things like this now, so i'm doing what i believe is right.

          I think, maybe, you aren't against authoritarians if they share your views.
          who is the authoritarian that i'm serving? because i'm not taking orders from fucking *anyone* here.

          advice? intel/weather reports? opinions from the other side?

          those i am listening to.
          past:
          1989 325is (learner shitbox)
          1986 325e (turbo dorito)
          1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
          1985 323i baur
          current:
          1995 M3 (suspension, 17x9/255-40, borla)

          Comment


            LOL at all the pontificating on things we know even less about than I know about what granola goes best with what wheatgerm rye grass smoothie.

            As to environmental disaster.... A small gathering line break in the waste lands of ND hardly qualifies as a disaster, a, mess yes, a matter of great importance for the affected land owners, it might equate to them as a disaster. But the operating company will compensate them highly for their troubles. This is very very small potatoes when you compare it to an actual disaster, like a B.O.P. failure on a high formation pressure wild cat well 2200 feet below the ocean surface near where 10s of millions of people live. Or when a drunk tanker pilot crashes his boat with with a 1/4 million barrels of oil on board into a rock and rips a big hole in the bottom. Or when the Iraqi army lit on fire and turned the valves on and let about 6 million barrels burn and dump into the Persian gulf and into the desert.... THOSE ARE just a couple of the ENVIRONMENTAL DISASTERS that come to mind off the bat....... You have to put it into some kinda of perspective.

            Now this was a gathering line likely only seeing 2-300psi tops, likely less than 150psi (though with out seeing it and what not I can not say for sure). Oil is only pumped when there is enough oil to pump due to the intermittent nature of conventional oil wells are left to rest for a while after pumping for a given time. Since this has been in since the 1980s that's the type of well.... Since its a gathering line of low pressure requirements ( most likely ) and its a gathering line built in the 80's in ND, the regulatory requirements are/were not the same as they are for even new gathering line let alone high pressure transmission. With out knowing ND regs, I cant say with any certainty, but I am going to toss our a educated WAG on this.

            Assuming this is a low pressure application, it was built in the 80's (fact) and knowing that ND has very open regs on the energy biz, and was likely non existent in the early 80s.... this is likely a welded steel line with a thin wall thickness likely .180, they went over a creek (cheap), likely there was little in the way of inspection and oversight during construction and NDE was more than likely 10% if required at all. All that said to meet state state regs at the time given its likely a low pressure system, I bet it only had to pass the hydro test, which is little more than what your home water system goes though.

            Now a-days, due to the environmental hot button issues construction 3rd party inspection on even gathering lines is substantial, NDE is now 100% (at least on everything guys I know have been building up there) and the stakes for a fuck up are far higher than they used to be. Most gathering systems I have built are built to 95% of the same oversight standards that a major high profile multi state transmission system is built with.

            Saying my industry needs to clean our shit up........ thats a statement that comes out of the mouth of people that read news stories from the Huff-po or look at maps put together by biased envrio activist web sites (that just take data and plot it) with out putting any context to it. A company might have barrel of 30wt motor oil for their pumps spill and that would have to be reported even though it never left the shop, or a when some maintenance was going on and a gauge was being swapped out and the drain bucket got kicked over inside the containment berm and had to be reported. Most of the biggest issues I can think of from recent years have been some outside contractor (or even gas company hires) working on or near a loaded line and poking a hole in it... Out and out, out of the blue failures are not as common as braves maps attempt to make you think.

            When they fail they fail no doubt about that, but you green types only see the possibility of an issue. To move the same amount of oil that this little 6 inch moved every day (about a 1000 barrels from an article I have read) with a small pump house burning small amount of fuel a day, compared to the 3-5 Big tanker trucks that would have to be dispatched out every day to get it. Thats a lot more diesel burnt and associated pollution, and truck consumables used just to move oil from the pump to the tank farm. 1 connection use for years and years Vs connecting trucks to tanks, over and over every day on both ends of the journey. Not to mention the risk of every shipment involved in wreck on the road. 3-5 trucks a day for 30 years + about 44,000 shipments via truck, and 100k or so hose connections every one of which is a potential spill for Braves map...... To move the same amount of oil the DAPL will move by truck you would need about 8333 trucks dispatching out of the terminal every day. So a 24 hour trip, 12 hour driving time per driver, would mean at minimum you would have 33,333 trucks on the road at any given time to move all this product. This same argument applies to train shipments as well.

            Its like being sacred of flying, because the plane might crash Vs driving your shit box across the country every other week....


            As buddy pointed out new infrastructure is needed to replace existing ageing infrastructure, but also if there is not a line that runs from where the resources is, to where it needs to go, then one needs to be built with the correct start and end points..... As to waste water injection wells, they have their uses, and have been used for a long time to aid in production of conventional oil fields to maximize their longevity. What is going in OK afaik is its just being disposed of in old formations and I dont know if its a good or bad. There is some validity to lubing up fault lines with water deep underground, so I dont necessary agree with this disposal practice and think more geologic study might be nice

            As to the DAPL crossing point, that line has to cross the Missouri river someplace going further upstream is not going to help anything, IF and highly stress IF there were to be an issue.

            I am going to bed
            Last edited by mrsleeve; 12-13-2016, 08:48 PM.
            Originally posted by Fusion
            If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
            The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


            The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

            Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
            William Pitt-

            Comment


              Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
              LOL at all the pontificating on things we know even less about than I know about what granola goes best with what wheatgerm rye grass smoothie.

              As to environmental disaster.... A small gathering line break in the waste lands of ND hardly qualifies as a disaster, a, mess yes, a matter of great importance for the affected land owners, it might equate to them as a disaster.
              ok dude- yeah, we can agree there, it probably does seem like a disaster to the *people directly affected*.

              and i'm sorry, but working in the petro industry doesn't mean you're the only one entitled to an opinion.

              also, this article gave me great joy.



              guess we better mobilize some waambulances.

              sorry the veterans' community completely overwhelmed you fucks, but that was the idea.
              past:
              1989 325is (learner shitbox)
              1986 325e (turbo dorito)
              1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
              1985 323i baur
              current:
              1995 M3 (suspension, 17x9/255-40, borla)

              Comment


                Why should you be happy the feds abandoned Law Enforcment for doing their jobs and keeping the peace from a bunch of trespassing property destroying demonstrators, and construction crews building a 100% legal project on federal land that has/had the approval of the feds them selves........ the being on federal land part means its partially their responsibility to police the actions on it, and several 1000 people squatting on it and destroying shit is within that realm......
                Originally posted by Fusion
                If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                William Pitt-

                Comment


                  100% legal my fucking ass. you didn't get the comms from the ACE?

                  edit: also, some of your concerns are correct... unfortunately, some of my mission out there will be http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...=Police%20Call
                  Last edited by decay; 12-14-2016, 04:02 AM.
                  past:
                  1989 325is (learner shitbox)
                  1986 325e (turbo dorito)
                  1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
                  1985 323i baur
                  current:
                  1995 M3 (suspension, 17x9/255-40, borla)

                  Comment


                    Dude, why would you need to do trash cleanup from a bunch of environmentalists and Indians? That is like the 2 groups who you would think would have left the place better than they found it.

                    I appluad you for doing that and being dedicated to your cause. Clearly some are more dedicated than others.

                    Comment


                      yeah, you WOULD fucking hope that, given that we're all out there as hippie earth protectors, but sometimes you have to police up after your own.
                      past:
                      1989 325is (learner shitbox)
                      1986 325e (turbo dorito)
                      1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
                      1985 323i baur
                      current:
                      1995 M3 (suspension, 17x9/255-40, borla)

                      Comment


                        Gotta clean up after the people who are just there for the image.
                        1989 BMW 325is | 2019 Ford Ranger FX4
                        willschnitz

                        Comment


                          I love the irony of that
                          Originally posted by Fusion
                          If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                          The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                          The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                          Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                          William Pitt-

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
                            I love the irony of that
                            Kind of makes the whole thing a little hollow.
                            Si vis pacem, para bellum.

                            New Hawtness: 1995 540i/6 Claptrap
                            Defunct too: Cirrusblau m30 Project
                            Defunct (sold): Alta Vista

                            79 Bronco SHTF Build

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by marshallnoise View Post
                              Kind of makes the whole thing a little hollow.
                              hey be careful, there's a baby in that bathwater
                              past:
                              1989 325is (learner shitbox)
                              1986 325e (turbo dorito)
                              1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
                              1985 323i baur
                              current:
                              1995 M3 (suspension, 17x9/255-40, borla)

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by decay View Post
                                hey be careful, there's a baby in that bathwater
                                Do we say the same thing when Black Lives Matter decide to riot?
                                Si vis pacem, para bellum.

                                New Hawtness: 1995 540i/6 Claptrap
                                Defunct too: Cirrusblau m30 Project
                                Defunct (sold): Alta Vista

                                79 Bronco SHTF Build

                                Comment

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