Official Aviation Thread...

[BlackbirdM3]

http://vintageaviationecho.com/xp51a/

Some nice pics, a couple that look like mine, but aren't.

Will

[LateFan]

How do these Reno races work? What are the rules as far as altitude, lining up in lanes, how close you can get to the pylons, passing below or above another plane? I hope it's more regulated than pod racing.

I see they line up to start with a small jet - somewhat similar to lining up hydroplanes on the water. Then hydros are allowed to cut in to the inside when clear - but often they're not clear and wash down another boat. The consequences in the air would be much much worse.

[BlackbirdM3]

How do these Reno races work? What are the rules as far as altitude, lining up in lanes, how close you can get to the pylons, passing below or above another plane? I hope it's more regulated than pod racing.

I see they line up to start with a small jet - somewhat similar to lining up hydroplanes on the water. Then hydros are allowed to cut in to the inside when clear - but often they're not clear and wash down another boat. The consequences in the air would be much much worse.

The way Reno works is Monday- Wednesday is qualifying. You have two laps to put together your fastest lap. From there you are placed into different groups (Gold, silver, Bronze) If you fail to qualify you can race your way into the Gold, but you have to race and win the bronze, and silver races.

At takeoff you are gridded by speed, fastest right behind the pace plane and then down the grid. Once in the air the make a big loop out around Peavine mountain so they can form up off the right wing of the pace plane. As they come down the chute (At speeds around 540 mph for the Unlimited gold) the pace plane does his best to keep them even, and at a predetermined point he says "Gentleman you are looking good... Gentleman you have a race!" at which point the pace plane pulls up, throttles go to the firewall, and they dive toward pylon 3 (pylons 1 and 2 are situated inside the flight path of the start so they are omitted at that point.) There are known deadlines that cannot be broken on the outside, the perimeter fence down the east side, north side and west side, and the edge of the runway at show center. As far as cutting pylons, there are a group of people at each pylon who effectively look straight up the pylon and if they see a plane above them, its a cut. There are altitude restrictions, (there weren't until the 2011 crash) but basically if you are below the top of the pylon, you get a low flying penalty. As far as high flying, its a little more arbitrary (making it more dangerous if you think about it). Making a pass must be done to the outside, and above the slower aircraft. All of these rules apply to all the classes, although the IF1 and biplane classes are slightly different since they start from the ground and fly a smaller course.

I have to say, being at pylon 2 when the Unlimited Gold class is released at the start is almost a life changing experience. The top 3 or 4 planes are all pushing well over 500 mph as they go over, 50-75 feet above your head, and they are all pushing more than 3000 hp, some more than 4000 hp. (For a race prepped Merlin, that would be about 3400 rpm at 140+ inches of manifold pressure) Most of the seasoned photographers don't even bother trying to shoot the start of the race because its too hard to focus on shooting the shot. (And its a tough angle) Between the sound and the fact that you can feel the props beating the air to death its just too hard to concentrate when you have 7 planes going over you like that. After the first lap the field has spread out and you can start setting up your shot.

Here are a few pics from Pylon 2.

A shot of the start from pylon 2






The Unlimiteds are rare to have stacked on top of each other, but the T6, Sport Bronze and IF1 classes, its pretty common.







When you think about it, pylon racing is really very precise formation flying that isn't scripted. They do a whole pylon racing school for rookies at Reno in June. You have to attend and pass the school if you want to race in September. Also, if you haven't raced in 2 years, you are required to do the school as a refresher course.

Will

[LateFan]

Good descriptions - thank you.

Oh, so it's an oval around a bunch of pylons, not a Roman colosseum with crazy 180º banked turns at each end. That makes more sense.

If you have to pass outside and above, does it eventually turn into a parade of horsepower? I assume drafting doesn't work with planes - you want to be way out of the leading guy's turbulence?

Can the pilots talk to each other to make sure they know you're there?

[ThatM20Guy]

I have to say, being at pylon 2 when the Unlimited Gold class is released at the start is almost a life changing experience.

I was at a NASCAR race a couple years ago and the start of that was pretty awesome. Crazy feeling in your chest. I can only imagine the feeling of 25000hp flying right over you.

140+ manifold pressure :mrgreen: Now that is awesome!!!

[BlackbirdM3]

I was at a NASCAR race a couple years ago and the start of that was pretty awesome. Crazy feeling in your chest. I can only imagine the feeling of 25000hp flying right over you.

140+ manifold pressure :mrgreen: Now that is awesome!!!

It sounds a hell of a lot better than a bunch of V8s as well.

A stock Rolls Royce/Packard Merlin redlines about 2800 rpm at roughly 70 inches of manifold pressure. Now, let the 3400/140+ sink in for a little bit.

Another thing to consider. The Merlins and Allisons are both about 1700 cubic inch V12s (Merlins are 1650, Allisons are 1710) R2800s are 2800 cubic inch 18 cyl engines, R3350s are 3350 CI 18 cyl, and the lone R4360 is 4360ci, with 28 cylinders (pushing about 4000 hp in stock form.) All of this going over your head at WOT about 50 feet above you. :shock:

When the jets go over at about the same speed and height its not nearly as impressive.

Will

[varg]

I need to add the reno air races to my collection of impressive experiences. I don't think any sound will ever match the night time shuttle launch I got to view from the bleachers as a boy though.

[BlackbirdM3]

I need to add the reno air races to my collection of impressive experiences. I don't think any sound will ever match the night time shuttle launch I got to view from the bleachers as a boy though.

Yeah I think you win ;)

That said, I've been blown on my butt by an SR-71 on takeoff. (I was 11) Still, 7 Unlimiteds running WOT 50 feet above me sounds so much more impressive than thunderous jet engines. A rocket launch from up close is in its own class.

Reno is a unique event. It could be so much more than it is if the Reno Air Race Association would pull their heads out and get some more sponsorship, and get the Heritage trophy back (Its a showcase of epic restorations that is hosted and given out by the Smithsonian) RARA chased them off a couple years ago (Went to the Cal Capitol Airshow in Sac.) They won't put any effort into getting some good coverage of the event.

Will

[varg]

That said, I've been blown on my butt by an SR-71 on takeoff. (I was 11) Still, 7 Unlimiteds running WOT 50 feet above me sounds so much more impressive than thunderous jet engines.

Yes, jet engines in afterburner are just loud, there's no character to the sound imo. I saw a B1 at an airshow years ago and it just made me glad I had earplugs, then when it left we were treated to a cacophony of car alarms and upset children, probably not as loud as an SR-71 and nowhere near as cool. Shame I'll never get to see one fly.

I highly recommend going to see a rocket launch as close as you can, even if it means signing up far in advance to get some close spectator seating. The bigger the rocket the better, that way you won't be able to hear the morons clapping and cheering once the sound arrives. I wish people would just be quiet and take it all in sometimes, and I wish airshows didn't always have to have a trite soundtrack and a goofy announcer taking away from the sweet sounds of old warbirds. At least cut the speakers for a couple of flybys so we can hear that old V12 or radial for what it is. No need to do this for T6s though because you can't hear anything over the propeller! I wouldn't want to be at the pylons at reno without earplugs and earmuffs together when a group of T6s fly by.

[LateFan]

Rockets qualify as aviation, right?

This is engineering wizardry. These boosters separate, don't hit each other, flip around, fire to go BACK to shore, flip around, drop like rocks, then fire and land side by side! It's crazy, it's fantastic.

As you guys said, the sound in person must be unbelievable. As they fall, these things make triple sonic booms - one at the engines, one at the landing leg assemblies, one at the air fins at the top.

Ignore SpaceNerd narrator.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=Z_kfM-BmVzQ

Another fun fact - the landing legs are built by Dan Gurney's All American Racers!

[ThatM20Guy]

Super pumped for next week! Taking my instrument checkride on Wednesday and starting my tailwheel in a Super D on Thursday.

I'll start my commercial this semester and finish it in the fall. Super super super excited

[superj]

cool

[varg]

Good luck! I wish I had been able to make it that far. One of the things I look forward to most about finishing school is being able to afford to finish my PPL, then do my IFR rating and tailwheel endorsement. I dream of some day owning a small plane of my own, and a Decathalon is high on the list of planes I would want.

[flyboyx]

congratulations m20guy! sounds like you are moving along fast.


I've never flown aerobatics but have always loved the flagship citabria you mention above. i have done a few barrel rolls in a learjet back in the day. single engine sea would be a fun but probably not a very useful rating to have. i got mine as a graduation present to myself when i finished college. 9.1 hours of the most fun i've ever had in an airplane. guess how many hours i have in a sea plane since? yup, you guessed it! a big zero.

my thought was that i had always wanted to fly the otters that go in and out of peuget sound or possibly work for Chaulks DBA prior to their crash that folded the company. my career path never took me in that direction however.....

[LateFan]

That's part of what made Seattle Seattle for me - those planes taking off from Lake Union all day out your office window. We've been paddling out there when those things buzz right over - great noise, and lots of spray! I've seen them weave between sailboat masts and then set down. A cool thing a guy explained to me once - on take-off, they get going across the water, then roll a bit and lift one sponson off the water. Less surface tension and drag, and it lifts right off and swings back flat. I love that stuff.