Let’s talk about Antifa.

[E30 Wagen]

we can have a discussion about whether the laws responsible for creating our current policy are just and should exist, if you're ready to hear about how our own government created the forced migration problem by destabilizing central america

I'm ready. I've researched this only briefly, please provide links or references to your sources.

[decay]

I'm ready. I've researched this only briefly, please provide links or references to your sources.

well, there are actions in quite a few countries to discuss, each of them slightly different, so how about we start with a wikipedia page on the subject and go from there

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America

[frankenbeemer]

then you haven't been paying attention to what i've been saying, because i've already pointed out that our own CIA action is the reason people are fleeing honduras.

it's documented, i posted details about it already, and if you're not going to bother to read my arguments, then no, i don't care about anything else you have to say either, we can just both ignore each other

Apparently not in this thread. Could you clarify where you pointed this out?


[ATTACH]124910[/ATTACH]

Did you ever figure out where you posted those details?

we can have a discussion about whether the laws responsible for creating our current policy are just and should exist, if you're ready to hear about how our own government created the forced migration problem by destabilizing central america

well, there are actions in quite a few countries to discuss, each of them slightly different, so how about we start with a wikipedia page on the subject and go from there

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United..._Latin_America

Here we are again. Care to propose a resolution for debate?

[decay]

Here we are again. Care to propose a resolution for debate?

how about that last link i dropped at Wagen's request?

[coldweatherblue]

Your premise that US involvement in Latin American affairs during the Cold War is a primary cause of the current migration movement and thus worthy of derision implies that in the hypothetical situation that the US was NOT involved 30-100 years ago in these regime changes that the migrant situation would've been avoided.

This is impossible to prove as it's purely hypothetical and thus fits ANTIFA's purposes.

I would argue that had South and Central America devolved into various Communist and Socialist regimes within the Russia/China sphere of geopolitical influence, that part of the world would much more resemble the Middle East or sub-Saharan Africa in the modern day in terms of stability, and would've resulted in a hundred or so million unnecessary civilian casualties.

Of note, I do not expect a sensible or coherent reply to this post.

[decay]

no. the alternative you are presenting is entirely hypothetical, and shaped to *your* narrative; and so you're doing the exact thing you're finger-pointing at me about. i am discussing actual events, or trying to, anyway.

i suppose you shouldn't expect a sensible reply to a nonsensical post. that part, at least, is reasonable.

[frankenbeemer]

Your premise that US involvement in Latin American affairs during the Cold War is a primary cause of the current migration movement and thus worthy of derision implies that in the hypothetical situation that the US was NOT involved 30-100 years ago in these regime changes that the migrant situation would've been avoided.

This is impossible to prove as it's purely hypothetical and thus fits ANTIFA's purposes.

I would argue that had South and Central America devolved into various Communist and Socialist regimes within the Russia/China sphere of geopolitical influence, that part of the world would much more resemble the Middle East or sub-Saharan Africa in the modern day in terms of stability, and would've resulted in a hundred or so million unnecessary civilian casualties.

Of note, I do not expect a sensible or coherent reply to this post.

Well summarized.

[frankenbeemer]

no. the alternative you are presenting is entirely hypothetical, and shaped to *your* narrative; and so you're doing the exact thing you're finger-pointing at me about. i am discussing actual events, or trying to, anyway.

i suppose you shouldn't expect a sensible reply to a nonsensical post. that part, at least, is reasonable.

It's a perfectly sensible post and accurately predicts the position you seem to have adopted despite your reluctance or inability to define or defend it.

[frankenbeemer]

how about that last link i dropped at Wagen's request?

I read it. How does it support your position?

[coldweatherblue]

no. the alternative you are presenting is entirely hypothetical, and shaped to *your* narrative; and so you're doing the exact thing you're finger-pointing at me about. i am discussing actual events, or trying to, anyway.

If I state that something is hypothetical, then directly following make an entirely hypothetical statement, it should really be obvious that I know the statement is hypothetical and am stating it for the sake of discussion.

[decay]

I read it. How does it support your position?

it supports my assertion because it's a history of how we helped create this mess? i don't have an "inability to define" this statement, i just thought you might spend a little more time reading for yourself rather than looking for another excuse to cast vitriol.

i did not say it's the primary cause- someone put those words in my mouth. climate change affecting arable land in the tropics is another. it's still absolutely a factor, and well, if you're inclined to throw out the actual root causes of this problem in the discussion, we're probably not going to get too far on agreeing on a solution.

[mrsleeve]

^

So what your saying is I dont like your hypothesis so its therefore not worthy of discussion or consideration and continue to bury your head in a pail of sand to continue to ride your equally hypothetical train of thought. Only real difference between the thoughts is one fits your personal echo chamber and therefore your own narrative is reinforced by people equally as jaded as yourself

[decay]

...if the "pail of sand" you are talking about is ACTUAL DOCUMENTED HISTORY, then yes, i will continue to do that.

and there is a certain amount of irony in accusing me of hiding in an echo chamber when i knew full well this thread would raise dissenting opinions.

[frankenbeemer]

it supports my assertion because it's a history of how we helped create this mess? i don't have an "inability to define" this statement, i just thought you might spend a little more time reading for yourself rather than looking for another excuse to cast vitriol.

i did not say it's the primary cause- someone put those words in my mouth. climate change affecting arable land in the tropics is another. it's still absolutely a factor, and well, if you're inclined to throw out the actual root causes of this problem in the discussion, we're probably not going to get too far on agreeing on a solution.

I suppose any criticism is vitriol to a group that can't tell the difference between Marine Corp reservists and Nazis, but perhaps "cruel and bitter criticism" is, like beauty, in the eye of the beholder.

...if the "pail of sand" you are talking about is ACTUAL DOCUMENTED HISTORY, then yes, i will continue to do that.

and there is a certain amount of irony in accusing me of hiding in an echo chamber when i knew full well this thread would raise dissenting opinions.

Yes, it's actual "documented history", whatever that means, but you haven't demonstrated how it supports your assertion. What makes you believe things wouldn't be worse without our filibustering in Latin America?

[decay]

I suppose any criticism is vitriol to a group that can't tell the difference between Marine Corp reservists and Nazis, but perhaps "cruel and bitter criticism" is, like beauty, in the eye of the beholder.

given that i attached to the marines in iraq, i can probably do a better job of spotting one than you.

Yes, it's actual "documented history", whatever that means, but you haven't demonstrated how it supports your assertion. What makes you believe things wouldn't be worse without our filibustering in Latin America?

you're starting on a false premise- "filibustering" is not what we did down there.