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    Question for the hardcore 2A guys.....

    I frequently read the reason for the 2A, is because of protection against tyranny of the gov't.

    Does anyone honestly believe if the gov't turned it's guns on the people, middle-aged folks with a glock and an AR would do anything? (Hint, they wouldn't)

    I then frequently get the response that "The military would never turn against the people."

    Does anyone see the contradiction here?
    Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
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    #2
    sadly it was written for the times... 1776. but we know that.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    '90 325i sedan daily driven
    '85 325e coupe also a daily

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      #3
      Originally posted by Fusion
      If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
      The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


      The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

      Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
      William Pitt-

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        #4
        Sleeve, I'm not surprised, you don't have a response so you resort to an Ad Hominem..............have you been hanging with Lee?
        Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
        Chief Sales Officer, Midwest Division—Blunt Tech Industries

        www.gutenparts.com
        One stop shopping for NEW, USED and EURO PARTS!

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          #5
          A marine unit was polled in the 90's about this very topic, whether or not they'd abide by lawful orders to turn their guns on citizens for the purpose of enforcing a requirement to turn over weapons. The results were essentially that if push came to shove, there would be a majority who'd refuse that order.

          I also think that yes those middle-aged folk with small arms could accomplish a hell of a lot if this unlikely scenario ever kicked off. I'm sure some combat-arms types can chime in here with personal experience, but conventional forces don't work very well in a guerrilla warfare type scenario.

          Comment


            #6
            Come on man, you know that things back then were equal on both sides, the people that say it now are using every single tiny bit to keep any part of our rights from changing. I want a damn f35 and an a10

            I don't know of anyone in the military that would fire on to citizens of this country, they'd be more likely to shoot their command.

            Comment


              #7
              ^
              We dont change amendments.........

              Originally posted by z31maniac View Post
              Sleeve, I'm not surprised, you don't have a response so you resort to an Ad Hominem..............have you been hanging with Lee?
              Why are you asking, your trying to provoke a response that you already have had explained to you in depth several times over. I am rather busy, and dont have time to spend 2 hours typing out a dissertation for you to not read. So you get what you get. Maybe if your lucky I will go find other quotes from my self to post latter.


              Good examples for you to look into why, Look at the recent Bundy ranch incident why arms are far more important in the safes/closets/drawers and of the citizenry, than to take them up in active revolt. Look at how the govt treats its citizenry, when we are armed to the teeth, how do you think they will act if we were to be disarmed???? think about that one.

              Originally posted by James Madison
              A standing military force, with an overgrown executive will not long be safe companions to liberty.
              Originally posted by Fusion
              If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
              The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


              The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

              Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
              William Pitt-

              Comment


                #8
                ^

                Tell that to those that reside in the UK, or the Aussies, or kiwis and ask how that has worked out for them.......... Or most all other 1st world nations where arms are allowed to be kept at the benevolence and the consent of the governors, which know "who", "where", "why", "how many" there are at all times . Unlike here where the right to defend oneself is a right and not a privilege to be revoked at any time the governors feel, or what ever reason the like.

                [Edit] Right wrong or indifferent the Feds could not come in and trample the Bundys and act like the SS in 30s germany. And given the ATF/FBIs track record with standoff they could not just snipe them froma distance anymore either.

                Really your going to throw the race card at this...... Not the right thread....... not even close

                I am not too worried about someone coming to get me, I am do my thing, I pay my taxes, I just want to be left alone. The arms in my safe, and my neighbors safes help to ensure we are left alone to pursue our lives in peace. Maybe you should venture out out of Zootown once in while and visit with the rest of us that live in these parts ;) We dont bite (well most of us anyway)


                Originally posted by Mediumrarechicken View Post
                Come on man, you know that things back then were equal on both sides, the people that say it now are using every single tiny bit to keep any part of our rights from changing. I want a damn f35 and an a10

                I don't know of anyone in the military that would fire on to citizens of this country, they'd be more likely to shoot their command.
                The 2a is not written for (in general) f35s and nukes, tanks, etc... but for arms that would be afield deployed by individual common rifleman, common rifle and sidearms, its written in a way that the common man (aka Militia which is defined as EVERYONE ) should have access to and be proficient in the use of arms that are available and in current in common issue (or their equivalent) to military regulars. Up until the 30's the common US citizen had access to (and likely owned) better arms than most of the military regulars around the world.

                FFS you go back a 100 years in to the archive of NY news papers after the development of the BOLT action rifle and it being a military killing machine, no one could ever need such a military weapon for their common use. Yet its the main staple of nearly every hunter on the planet. The more things change the more they stay the same.
                Last edited by mrsleeve; 02-22-2018, 01:13 PM.
                Originally posted by Fusion
                If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                William Pitt-

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by LateFan
                  You're being sold a whole line of brainwashing. They've sold it so well for so long.

                  Nobody's going to be "disarmed," nobody would suggest that. If some future legal change was made, there would be provisions for existing conditions. You don't ban all cars because they pollute. You change rules and design better ones. But you get to keep your '55 Nomad no matter what. Do you know nobody really cares about your armed to the teeth collection? You can only shoot one at a time. Only if you sell it secretly to someone who has no business having a combat weapon.

                  The Bundys are common punk criminals - all their neighbors knew that. They're not smart, they have a giant chip on their shoulders. Everybody loves some attention, and look at them now, famous for Fighting' the Gummint!!

                  Look at how the government treats it's black citizenry. They may have some interesting opinions on the matter. Us white males really aren't in any danger, never have been. We live a privileged life relative to the country and the world.

                  Who, exactly, are you all so afraid is "coming to get you?"
                  You are exactly who the democrats love, you take everything thing they say as truth and lap it up. I wish I were as naive as you so I could look through rose colored glasses. Say you have a cake, the government says it wants a slice, you say ok. Then they come back a few days later and say oh hey you still have cake, I want 2 slices this time, now you still have 3/4 of a cake and are somewhat happy still. Then they come back a week later and want more, you say no I want my cake, then they well it's just fair and common sense Later on you have crumbs and that's it, no more cake.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The irony of talking about brainwashing when you guys repeat NRA memes in support of 2A.

                    Unless everyone chooses to come up with reforms, things will get banned. The NRA has tricked you into believing any legislation is bad legislation. Meanwhile on the record supporting legislation when it fits their agenda.

                    I can't wait to have my guns taken away because of the staunch 2A supporters who cannot think beyond 'gubment comin to take er guns' and try to find compromises in processes and methods to obtain firearms that could lead to a safer environment, better accountability, but still allow firearms to be used in a safe manner.

                    I'm not talking about banning a particular gun, the AR15 isn't the big bad boogie man the media makes it to be, the real 'killer' are the ridiculous amount of handgun related deaths, both suicide and homicide, throughout the nation. Including in notable mass shootings such as Virginia Tech.

                    Wish the NRA had half a brain and thought about this a generation ago, instead of turning themselves into a conspiracy theory organization pushing memes about 'actors' and 'deep state democrats' trying to take everyone's guns. Feel more like Scientology now instead of an organization that actually cares about maintaining gun rights. The GOP is going to self dissolve with their bad politics and with it gun rights will disappear unless you bring the issue to be important to protect to both sides, something you wont accomplish acting like lunatics who think every measure is just an excuse for some deep state organization to make a gun list and then snap steal everyone's guns and remove your rights.
                    1989 BMW 325is | 2019 Ford Ranger FX4
                    willschnitz

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by LateFan
                      The numbers of shootings in other countries are minuscule in number and % of population compared to the US. A new 18 yr old voting block is just waking up to that fact.
                      sorry but not true. Maybe educate yourself first before voting?

                      Update Post: For our latest work comparing mass public shootings across countries, please click here and here. For those interested, Snopes.com has given this research below a “mixed” r…


                      and if you really care to ban AR-15's for public safety, maybe you should confiscate knives first!

                      In the wake of the horrific school shooting in Florida last week, the debate over guns in America has surged again to the forefront oft the political conversation. 17 students were killed when a deranged gunman rampaged through the Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland Florida.  Many are calling now for stricter gun laws in the wake of the shooting. Many are targeting the AR-15 rifle and promoting the reinstatement of the assault weapons ban. However, recent statistics from 2016 show that knives actually kill nearly file times as many people as rifles that year. 
                      “There is nothing government can give you that it hasn’t taken from you in the first place”
                      Sir Winston Churchill

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                        #12
                        Late: While gun crimes per capita do tend to slow after a few decades, Violent crime in general GOES WAY UP and stays that way.



                        Originally posted by Wschnitz View Post

                        I can't wait to have my guns taken away because of the staunch 2A supporters who cannot think beyond 'gubment comin to take er guns' and try to find compromises in processes and methods to obtain firearms that could lead to a safer environment, better accountability, but still allow firearms to be used in a safe manner.
                        Its not as much about the firearms being taken, its about everything else that can be taken once they are gone by and large, and those that remain are "dealt with" by means of regulation into oblivion so they are useless to serve their primary purpose.

                        Again think about the shit that is shoved down our collective gullets, when we have a means of resistance...............
                        Originally posted by Fusion
                        If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                        The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                        The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                        Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                        William Pitt-

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Oh spare me the fucking idealism, if guns were the turning point in taking more of our rights away a march on Washington should have already happened.
                          1989 BMW 325is | 2019 Ford Ranger FX4
                          willschnitz

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by LateFan
                            yeah...Follow the Money...who's behind THAT?!

                            Im my uneducated brain, I think of knives as tools to do work with. The military didn't hire a contractor to design knives. Sure, they're really pointy and can do damage....if you're up close!

                            <EDIT> I never said I want to ban ARs. I want a discussion on why we need them.
                            the point was the big bad "assualt rifles" Pelosi, Schumer and the democrat party hold up after a shooting are pure politics to repeal the 2nd amendment.

                            And in response to previous posts about "really" would the government actually impose martial law, confiscate guns and basically hold the population hostage? the 2nd amendment is the ONLY thing that prevents it, period. the protection of the 2nd is as relevant today as it was when it was passed, perhaps more with all the shit the government does now
                            “There is nothing government can give you that it hasn’t taken from you in the first place”
                            Sir Winston Churchill

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by LateFan
                              No, laws and people who understand and respect laws protect you. You pay your taxes to hire competent Sheriffs and Police to uphold those laws. If our kids were educated, they would respect that system and not want to steal from neighbors. There are a tiny handful of bad people out there, sure. But that sounds like vigilante talk - who is coming for you exactly?
                              I don't think you understand what protection means. Sure laws and law enforcement are viable against those who act lawfully, but against criminals they merely address the issue after the fact. Protection prevents the unlawful act from happening, or at the least mitigating the damage caused.

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