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Old 03-23-2019, 02:19 PM   #91
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I personally think the timing is probably a bit aggressive if the head was lifting! Nonetheless, if the tuner thinks that it's the best timing, OK. Stock head bolts? With that said, the timing table doesn't look too bad to me.

I was surprised to see how well the fuel was tuned—despite the relatively flat upper fuel areas. I do think that it could use more fuel in the transition cells from just above 100kpa to full boost. It goes leaner than I'd like in that area. However, I'm always quite conservative in my tunes, so...

Regarding EGO control and AFR targets, you need to adjust them so that they are inline with what the tuner wanted to aim for. It looks like 11.5 or 11.3 in boost. Adjust your target AFR table.



When you get better weather, do a log of the 3rd gear issue you have. Drivability areas of a tune are the hardest part of the tune, imo.
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Old 03-23-2019, 02:55 PM   #92
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Thanks again for reviewing the info. Ya went way above and beyond. Aside from the blow by issue the car does run well. Its good to know the tune looks good as I can't review the logs at this time. I may pull some timing to be safe. Hopefully the new arps will hold the head down haha
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Old 03-25-2019, 05:15 PM   #93
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You said earlier in the thread you were making 320hp/320tq @8psi. The log labeled "pull9" says otherwise. 198kpa (closer to 13psi) and 19.8° at 5840rpm. After looking at the logs, I agree with Jaxx, the timing isn't as bad as I suspected with the tables you posted, also agree the fuel needs to be dialed in a little more.

Seems the upper tables are flat because those cells haven't been reached yet. Interpolated tables look nice, but don't always translate to what the engine wants.
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Old 03-25-2019, 07:11 PM   #94
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correct, I was able to download megalog viewer MS lite (instead of HD lite) and look at a full log and that was the first thing i noticed. On the dyno sheet that was posted from the tuners computer its showing roughly 8psi at peak.

I have run into this issue before but never got it resolved. I have tested the MAP sensor with key on, engine off and it reads 98.9 kpa. Correct from what I understand. The log is showing over 190kpa in full boost.

When driving the car my mechanical boost guage usually maxes out somewhere around 10psi (hard to get a great read on it when its pulling)

The Tuner says he is seeing 8psi. I have my boost control solenoid disabled. I dont need the car to make more power, But i am unsure what spring is in the wastegate. Im gonna assume around 11psi+-.
Am I missing something? Is there something in the log or MSQ that would tell us different?
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Old 03-25-2019, 07:15 PM   #95
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Regarding EGO control and AFR targets, you need to adjust them so that they are inline with what the tuner wanted to aim for. It looks like 11.5 or 11.3 in boost. Adjust your target AFR table.



When you get better weather, do a log of the 3rd gear issue you have. Drivability areas of a tune are the hardest part of the tune, imo.[/QUOTE]

My Ego is currently off. It was advised that i do not turn the authority up past 10% which i understand.
I would have to look at the tune again as im at work right now, but i do not think i have the tune programmed to incorporate my Target AFR table and am unsure what i would actually have to do to use it, if i even need to
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:05 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by turbski View Post
My Ego is currently off. It was advised that i do not turn the authority up past 10% which i understand.
I would have to look at the tune again as im at work right now, but i do not think i have the tune programmed to incorporate my Target AFR table and am unsure what i would actually have to do to use it, if i even need to
If your tune is close, it probably won't even need more than 5%. In MS3 there are EGO authority tables that allow you to dictate depending on the area of the map you're in—effectively blending into open loop if you'd like to think of it that way.

I don't remember if your tune had EGO on, but I thought it did. Perhaps I'm recalling incorrectly. If you incorporate AFR target your VE values will need to change. Basically if you don't include it, your VE table will be based on 14.7; this means that if you are at 100VE at 14.7, you'll have to add more to get to 12.5, for example. The advantage of tuning while incorporating AFR target is that you only tune the VE table "once" and then can adjust your AFRs by the target table alone, rather than having to retune VE values at all. Since your car was tuned without it on, you'd effectively have to tune it again if you turned it on.

As you know, having correct AFR targets related to your tune also allows EGO to pull or add fuel in the correct direction.
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:24 PM   #97
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yes, the tune I sent you has ego on. The car has not run with it yet. I was just getting it ready. I do not believe the car was tuned with the afr target incorporated but it looks like the table is set up for it? I'm not sure what that will do. In your opinion would it be ok to turn on ego control and not incorporate the afr table.?

I can email the tuner and ask if it was or was not tuned with it on. He has been open to questions even after getting this done 6+ months ago.

Last edited by turbski; 03-25-2019 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:20 PM   #98
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I believe that yes, the tune I sent you has ego on. The car has not run with it yet. I was just getting it ready. I do not believe the car was tuned with the afr target incorporated but it looks like the table is set up for it? I'm not sure what that will do. In your opinion would it be ok to turn on ego control and not incorporate the afr table.?

I can email the tuner and ask if it was or was not tuned with it on. He has been open to questions even after getting this done 6+ months ago.
From what it looks like, I don't think it was tuned with it on. The AFR target values are too far from what the logs are. Also, the high boost areas don't match up for what it was tuned for. The AFR targets are generally leaner.

Because most of the AFR targets are leaner, if you turn on EGO now without modifying the table you will effectively be pulling 10% fuel everywhere. Basically, a less safe tune.
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Old 03-26-2019, 06:55 AM   #99
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Ok, its all starting to make more sense on how those table interact when it is enabled. Ill make sure I turn it back off. For the time being I am going to focus on some minor mechanical stuff and hopefully save up for another dyno session later in the summer. I don't want to lean it out and blow it up.
Not to mention piston rings need attention

This weekend is looking like decent weather up here so I will hopefully get another log to post.

@Forcedfirebird It also makes more sense to be in the power range its in at 12-13psi than it does at 8psi
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Old 03-26-2019, 07:05 AM   #100
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Just so im clear as this is basically brand new to me, Does the EGO control always revert back to the target AFR table even if it is not incorporated. If not, what is it referencing to make adjustments?
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Old 03-26-2019, 09:42 AM   #101
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Just so im clear as this is basically brand new to me, Does the EGO control always revert back to the target AFR table even if it is not incorporated. If not, what is it referencing to make adjustments?
You got it. The AFR table is used for both incorporate AFR target and EGO correction
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Old 04-07-2019, 07:47 AM   #102
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Hello all. I am finally running MS2 the pnp version. Currently running stock injectors 284 cam. I've successfully deleted the vane and am running on m50 tps. I would like to add the m50 injectors but have no idea what needs to be done to make this happen correctly.

My afrs are really low around 10 at wot back to 16ish off the throttle, idle is irratic at best, and my timing map that comes from diyautotune seems to be way off. I'm miss firing in the upper rpms and popping in the intake coming off idle.

Currently making some changes using a few maps I have found here and there from several basically stock vehicles. The plan is to supercharge the car once I learn to tune it. Any help is greatly appreciated I will send what ever is needed. Thanks!


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Old 04-08-2019, 07:37 AM   #103
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Might as well add the injectors now because it sounds like your car is not tuned at all as it is. They drop right in.

17lb injectors might not be enough for a 284 cam.
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Old 04-08-2019, 08:59 AM   #104
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Hello all. I am finally running MS2 the pnp version. Currently running stock injectors 284 cam. I've successfully deleted the vane and am running on m50 tps. I would like to add the m50 injectors but have no idea what needs to be done to make this happen correctly.

My afrs are really low around 10 at wot back to 16ish off the throttle, idle is irratic at best, and my timing map that comes from diyautotune seems to be way off. I'm miss firing in the upper rpms and popping in the intake coming off idle.

Currently making some changes using a few maps I have found here and there from several basically stock vehicles. The plan is to supercharge the car once I learn to tune it. Any help is greatly appreciated I will send what ever is needed. Thanks!


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Popping is probably because you are loading the engine up with fuel and it is igniting in your exhaust. The maps that come on the MS is just a base.


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Might as well add the injectors now because it sounds like your car is not tuned at all as it is. They drop right in.

17lb injectors might not be enough for a 284 cam.

Stock injectors have no issue with a 284 cam, or even our 9.7:1 2.7 stroker making 180whp - a stock m20b25 with a cam is likely making much less.
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:12 AM   #105
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Yeah I've been running the 284 on stock injectors for nearly a year running great. Almost regret going to MS actually. I thought I would get more out of it out of the box. I mean Turner motor sports makes a chip that drops in and performs great. Thinking I'll go back to that and leave it.


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