Let’s talk about Antifa.

[coldweatherblue]

I think you missed my point.

Down here where a huge segment of the population carries and you are legally allowed to use lethal force to stop someone from being attacked, these mask wearing cowards would likely end up being shot.

I understood your point.

Most people down here who CCW would not be anywhere near an Antifa protest and would have good judgement to avoid a situation which would require deadly force.

Our local government would be unlikely to tell police to "stand down" like the Portland mayor did, resulting in arrests and the general maintenance of law and order.

Now if Antifa went up a holler and started messing with people on their property then yeah, we all hunt and know how to shoot and if the 30-30 don't get ya the 12 gauge will.

[decay]

why do you both think a person who decided to take anti-fascist action would not take advantage of any local laws that allowed legal access to firearms?

the only reason i don't own an AR-15 is that i can't get a 49-state version where the difference between that and my issued weapon is the "burst" setting on the selector switch

are there people in antifa who aren't fans of guns and would probably not employ one? certainly

but y'all gotta stop thinking of it as if it's a monolithic demographic where everyone agrees on everything, because that's not at all true

[coldweatherblue]

I would presume Antifa members to be armed, legally or illegally, and thus would take measures avoid any situation where it would require deadly force to defend myself from an unprovoked attack.

Situational awareness and avoiding conflict in the first place is the best way to prevent violence.

[z31maniac]

why do you both think a person who decided to take anti-fascist action would not take advantage of any local laws that allowed legal access to firearms?

the only reason i don't own an AR-15 is that i can't get a 49-state version where the difference between that and my issued weapon is the "burst" setting on the selector switch

are there people in antifa who aren't fans of guns and would probably not employ one? certainly

but y'all gotta stop thinking of it as if it's a monolithic demographic where everyone agrees on everything, because that's not at all true

So why do your coward brethren only do things in Portland?

[decay]

So why do your coward brethren only do things in Portland?

hey man, i've been trying to keep us out of insult land. can we chill?

[z31maniac]

I understood your point.

Most people down here who CCW would not be anywhere near an Antifa protest and would have good judgement to avoid a situation which would require deadly force.

Our local government would be unlikely to tell police to "stand down" like the Portland mayor did, resulting in arrests and the general maintenance of law and order.

Now if Antifa went up a holler and started messing with people on their property then yeah, we all hunt and know how to shoot and if the 30-30 don't get ya the 12 gauge will.

This is true, but you can't underestimate the hillbillies in this area and there desire to cause a problem.

hey man, i've been trying to keep us out of insult land. can we chill?

Yes, my bad.

[decay]

i can't say i know the answer to your question, but i think it may be more accurately phrased as "why is shit going down there first?"

possible factors:
- oregon doesn't spend as much of its budget on police as its neighbor states, which is why ICE keeps calling in the feds when action happens
- the local electorate is not necessarily cooperative with the feds. documented example of the mayor of portland ordering cops to tell ICE to pound sand: https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/20...alls-for-help/
- portland specifically has a higher concentration of leftists than anywhere else in the country (it's the only metro area i have contact with a cell in another state)

and as far as cowardice goes, you judge Willem Van Spronsen (the 69-year-old who died assaulting a concentration camp) for his intent, if you disagree with it. i'll judge him for his tactics, but they only suck if he intended to come out alive, and i suspect he might not have. but he died fighting. cowards don't go out like that.

[myinfernalbmw]

and as far as cowardice goes, you judge Willem Van Spronsen (the 69-year-old who died assaulting a concentration camp) for his intent, if you disagree with it. i'll judge him for his tactics, but they only suck if he intended to come out alive, and i suspect he might not have. but he died fighting. cowards don't go out like that.

I fail to see the correlation between suicide by police and bravery.

[cale]

and as far as cowardice goes, you judge Willem Van Spronsen (the 69-year-old who died assaulting a concentration camp) for his intent, if you disagree with it. i'll judge him for his tactics, but they only suck if he intended to come out alive, and i suspect he might not have. but he died fighting. cowards don't go out like that.

So you dont disagree with the intent of fire bombing? Interesting.

[TimeMachinE30]

I like that this is all out on the internet, a decay manifesto. Looks to be good fodder and even better evidence.

[decay]

I fail to see the correlation between suicide by police and bravery.

then you don't give enough of a shit to participate in a war that's already happening (which is why this thread is almost two years old) and that's okay

So you dont disagree with the intent of fire bombing? Interesting.

whoa buddy, put down that paint roller, there's gotta be a detail brush in your box somewhere

i'm looking at it pragmatically

this is what happens when governments start employing fascist tactics

pockets of resistance form, and they employ violence when peaceful and political options show themselves to be ineffective



(and also whoever you got your intel from failed to inform you that he also had an assault rifle, you know, those things you all seem to think we're afraid to use)

[decay]

I like that this is all out on the internet, a decay manifesto. Looks to be good fodder and even better evidence.

i talk about things that it's okay to talk about publicly here, given OpSec requirements. if you review this thread, you'll note that i usually talk about actions, especially ones that i've participated in, after they've happened, unless it's already out there

but there is that part where we're on a forum for obscure vintage BMWs that nobody other than us cares about so who really gives a shit. r3v is a secure channel to talk about the ideals behind the movement because of its own obscurity

:)

[cale]

whoa buddy, put down that paint roller, there's gotta be a detail brush in your box somewhere

i'm looking at it pragmatically

pockets of resistance form, and they employ violence when peaceful and political options show themselves to be ineffective

(and also whoever you got your intel from failed to inform you that he also had an assault rifle, you know, those things you all seem to think we're afraid to use)

I think I made a relatively fair inference from your comment, given you offered "you judge Willem Van Spronsen for his intent, if you disagree with it. i'll judge him for his tactics". You very clearly have stated you're choosing to judge his tactics for carrying out his actions, and not the intent of them. No roller necessary, you've already made clear the points worth addressing. There is no agreeing with this mans intent and retaining any semblance of moral high ground, you're cast off that island immediately.

I also don't think Antifa is afraid to use violence up to and including firearms, I just think generally speaking they've shown they're not very good at it and would get their ass kicked in the event things really cooked off. There are outliers sure, but the extreme right has clearly demonstrated that they don't fuck around when it comes down to executing violence.

this is what happens when governments start employing fascist tactics

I don't think you can honestly sit there in good faith and claim that the same measures being taken in Portland by the extreme left would be occurring under Obama's presidency. Similar actions being done by the govt, significantly different response tailored by both sides of the media resulting in significantly more violence and civil unrest.

[myinfernalbmw]

then you don't give enough of a shit to participate in a war that's already happening (which is why this thread is almost two years old) and that's okay

Oh no, there are plenty of things I give enough of a shit about. One of those things is sleeping peacefully on my chest at this very moment. I have no shortage of things that I care about. I don't however submit to this delusion that fascism is not only tolerated, but perpetuated by the current government (at least any more than any previous administration or to the extent that would justify terrorist acts.) What I do see is a bunch of larpers playing revolution in the streets and a local government that is too feckless to allow law enforcement to do their jobs.

[decay]

I think I made a relatively fair inference from your comment

well, your thinking is wrong, because you made an assumption- i questioned his tactics *because they got him killed* and that should have been fairly clear if you read the entire sentence you copypasta'd part of

it's okay. nuance isn't your thing and you're super-excited to have an effigy on r3v to set fire to. i get it

I don't think you can honestly sit there in good faith and claim that the same measures being taken in Portland by the extreme left would be occurring under Obama's presidency. Similar actions being done by the govt, significantly different response tailored by both sides of the media resulting in significantly more violence and civil unrest.

i don't have to, because you're presenting a false premise. actions taken under this presidency are happening at a scale unprecedented by any other