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Old 09-06-2008, 02:52 PM   #1
Nicademus
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Post BBS Garage: All things BBS

~ BBS Garage ~
The BBS Garage is a place to help each other, admire and discuss BBS wheels. Feel free to discuss, post pictures and info about your wheels such as (but not limited to):

  • Model:
  • Height/Width/Offset:
  • Purchased from:
  • Plans:
  • Refurbishment/Polishing Methods:
  • Price:




Useful Websites:

Info on OEM VW wheels (what came on what): touch me please..mmmm

Black Forest Industries: A great place to go to customize and brings your wheels back to their original luster!

BBS RM thread by LowlightBW: BBS refurbishment journal

*I'll move any useful links or info posted to this post*

(Taken from VWvortex Courtesy of member upon3 in 2003)

Be aware!! Some of the info below may only pertain to VW's!!
BBS Wide Wheel Lip Information FAQ

BBS of America, Inc.
5320 BBS Drive,
Braselton, Georgia 30517
USA
Tel.: 770.967.9848
Fax: 770.967.9866
E-Mail: marketing@bbs-usa.com

North American Wide Lip Source:
Kodiak Motorsports
#1 - 30455 Progressive Way
Abbotsford, BC Canada
V2T 6W3
Tel: 877.856.7311, Pacific time (ask for Daryle or Carol)
E-mail: sales@kodiakmotorsports.com
Web: http://www.kodiakmotorsports.com

United Kingdom Wide Lip Source:
Image Wheels International, Ltd.
3 Fountain Lane, Tipton
West Midlands
DY4 9HA
Great Britain
Tel: (UK) 0121 522 2442
Fax: (UK) 0121 520 9311
E-mail: imagewheels@btinternet.com
Web: http://www.imagewheels.co.uk


General Pricing:
For a 15" diameter 2" lip: $78 USD (Image's price of 66 pounds is about $110 USD each, not including shipping from Europe). Shipping is where the big savings should be with Kodiak. Without shipping charges, (4) 2" lips are $312. On average, the total has been about $359 for (4) 2" lips, and a tube of sealant, shipped.


Lip Size to New Wheel Width:
0.5" lip = 6.5" overall (standard BBS RMs)
1.5" lip = 7.5" width total
2.0" lip = 8.0" width total
3.0" lip = 9.0" width total


Preferred Tire Sizes:
Optimum/preferred 15" tire size for 8" wide wheel: 195/45-15 (front/rear)
Optimum/preferred 15" tire size for 9" wide wheel: 205/40-15 or 215/40-15(rears)
You'll have to go overseas for the rears, though in a 9" size. Not available in the US for some reason even though most tire manufacturers sell them, just not here. Pretty much your only option in the U.S. is 195/45-15 or 195/50-15 front and 205/50-15 rear.

Toyo makes the Proxes T1-S in the 215-45 that is readily available in the States.
You can get Toyo Proxes T1S in 195/45-15 for about $125 ea. from these two places:
http://www.treaddepot.com
http://www.etires.com

195/45-15 Kuhmos (not a great performing tire) have been spotted selling for $50 ea.
http://www.tirerack.com carries: Kumho ECSTA Supra 712 for $71 each in 195/45-15

Discount Tire Direct (http://www.tires.com) carries no tire in 195/45-15


Tire Heights:
215/45/15 will be 22.6" tall in total
205/40/15 will be 21.4" tall in total
205/50/15 will be 23.1" tall in total
195/45/15 will be 21.9" tall in total
195/50/15 will be 22.7" tall in total


Wheel Lip Manufacturing Process:
The parts that we make are made from 6061 aluminum and go through many steps to ensure their strength. Pot holes will only hurt your wheels if you do not have enough air pressure. Even if you had steel wheels they would bend if they came in contact with the ground. Kodiak parts are available in .500" increments from 1 inch to 10 inches wide. The width of the rim shell doest really have any effect on the strength until you get into very high loading vehicles. Kodiak rim shells are spun formed. It makes the part the strongest it can be by forging the sheet into the wheel shape. The rims are made from 6061-T6 aluminum and are .190" thick. They are machined on a vertical CNC and then polished to a mirror finish. Kodiak has made a variety of different profiles in the past but they now do almost everything using the J (ISO) contour. This contour is the most common and makes it easy for tire mounters.


Valve Hole Size:
Kodiak drilled some lips with the standard wheel size then thought it might be better to leave the hole the same size as stock BBS. If you want to go to a standard size just run a drill bit through the hole. It is easy and anyone can do it. The standard size for a valve hole is .431" so a 7/16" drill bit (.437") will work just fine.


Bolt Pattern & Bolts:
Both the BBS RSs and the RMs have 30 bolts per wheel, and they are the same bolt pattern. 17s should have 35 bolt holes. Torque bolts in a crossing star pattern, just like you would do with lug bolts.

BBS RM bolt torque is 12-15 lb/ft
BBS RS bolt torque is 40 lb/ft
NOTE: Some people have reported that when re-using old wheel bolts that they have experienced breakage to the bolt at 40 lb/ft torque specs. This number was provided by BBS for new and unstretched OEM bolts. Some individuals have suggested that 18 lb/ft is a more reasonable torque setting when re-using old bolts on BBS 3-piece wheels. Use these numbers at YOUR OWN RISK.


Disassembly and Assembly information:
Taking apart your wheels is a piece of cake. It only requires common sense and a little patience. Kodiak suggests to it's racing customers that they take apart and inspect there wheels every year. [This is probably not needed on a street tire.] We have yet to have anyone that hasn't been able to do it on their own. It is important to make sure that the parts are clean when they are reassembled.

Use a 12pt 8mm socket on the bolts and heat the lips up with a heat gun for 5-10 minutes before going at them with a rubber mallet. It should take no longer than 2 hours to have them all apart.

Use a decent 3/8 drive torque wrench and use a crossover method for tighening. After you torque the wheels put a bead of silicone adheasive over the seal on smooth it out. If you are really worried about leaking just put a very thin coat on one day and follow it up with a second coat 24 hours later.


Sealing Wheel Shells:
1. Clean the mating surfaces with laquer thinner and let dry.
2. Bolt the two shells together "DRY" and torque to spec.
3. Lay thin bead of silicone in the crack between the mating surfaces and smooth. Let it dry overnight.
4. Re-apply a bead over the first and smooth out to about a 1.0" bead width and smooth.

If you follow this procedure your wheels will never leak. The reason you don't want silicone between the halves is because all silicone shrinks as it cures. As is shrinks the pressure between the shells changes and your torque changes. BBS use a different system. I wouldnt worry about how the silicone looks. Once you put a tire on you cant see it anyway. The last thing to want is to be driving down the road and get a flat because you didnt use enough sealant. Kodiak suggests to all of their customers that they recheck the torque after you run the wheels for the first time. Just make a few turns each way and quickly recheck (just check don't tighten more).

One recommended product for sealing wheel halves is called Toyota Seal 10* (can't remember the last number) also known as FIPG or as it sounds "Fipige." It is only available at the dealer, 3 oz. cost near 15 dollars, no silicone in it, I believe, but it will seal almost unsealable things. Generally, and good quality RTV silicone sealant will work perfectly, though. Dow Corning 832 Multi Surface Adhesive Sealant was also recommended. Kinesis Motorsports also recommends a sealant called, Shin-Etsu Silicone (1 Component RTV). This is available from Kinesis Motorsports directly.


Other Important Multi-piece BBS Information:
BBS wheel assembly information:
http://www.gtiworld.fsnet.co.uk

Euro source for BBS parts (tapered and flush centercaps, gold and chrome bolts, etc.):
http://www.supergolfs.co.uk

The chrome BBS cap inserts are 70 mm cap inserts from either the LM, RK or RKII. From the Wheel & Tire Forum, Eric @ tirerack.com posted all the various BBS center cap combos.
BBS Center Cap Thread

On new bolts from BBS: quoted $50 a wheel from BBS of America, to re-assemble the wheel with new titanium fasteners. They will NOT sell you bolts directly for liability reasons, but they will do them up for you themselves for a fee. This also includes new seals between the rim halves, too. It is unknown if they will assemble wheel pieces that they did not manufacture.

Flushfit valve stems:
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk

Titanium, stainless and steel bolts for 2-3pc wheels:
http://www.titanium-touch.de
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Last edited by Nicademus; 09-09-2008 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 09-06-2008, 02:53 PM   #2
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The Difference Between a BBS RM and a BBS RS (Info from 2003)

This is NOT a BBS RS...

[Erased for bandwidth issues] anyone got a pic?? VW guy erased it

It is a BBS RM and it is a cast 2-piece wheel. The two pieces consist of the outer "lip" or "rim" and the inside half and are held together with 30 bolts. The center cap is plastic and snaps in. These wheels were available on the '91-92 16v GTIs. They are notoriously soft, and were very expensive from the dealer when they would need replacing. You can find a clean, straight set nowadays for about $800 - $2000 if you are very lucky. [edit: with the newly available lips from Kodiak in North America, the value of BBS RMs has increased considerably] Any less, and the wheels probably need some work.


This is a true 3-piece BBS RS...

[Erased for bandwidth issues] anyone got a pic?? VW guy erased it

It is a forged 3-piece wheel that consists of an outer "lip" and an inner "lip" plus the center section. The center cap is aluminum and threaded, and attaches by screwing on to the wheel. These are very light (15 pounds each), very strong and very rare wheels, especially in the U.S. where they were never offered on any factory VW. They were offered on a few European VWs, however. These are considered some of the most sought after wheels for the "old school" VW crowd. New, these wheels retailed for about $900 a piece in 15 x 7 or 7.5" versions in a 4-bolt/100mm pattern. If you can find these wheels today, in ANY condition, expect to pay at least $250-$350 a piece, and probably higher. Most people that have them don't want to part with them. You can also find these wheels on some older 3-series E30 BMWs, too, but they almost always have gold center sections.
__________________________________________________ _____

Here's my BBS RM wheels that I just bought a week ago:

* Model: BBS RM 012
* Height/Width/Offset: 15"x6 1/2" ET33
* Purchased from: Craigslist
* Plans:Get dent fixed on barrel of one of them, also somehow clean all of them up, resurface or whatever (I'm new to this)
* Refurbishment/Polishing Methods: Not sure how
* Price: $400 (sold for $500 and some VW Teardrops w/ tires which I then sold for $125. Basically I made $225. These BBS RM's were in pretty bad shape FYI).




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Well, posterity, you will never know what it cost us to preserve your freedom. I only hope that you will make a good use of it. If you do not, I shall repent in heaven that I ever took half the pains to preserve it.
~ John Adams ~

Last edited by Nicademus; 01-23-2009 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 09-06-2008, 03:14 PM   #3
Jbpka06
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BBS RS i picked up for $650, all they needed was paint and a set of bolts. I polished the lips myself. I also need spacers but for the price i couldnt pass it up,

BBS 047
15x7.5
et38

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Old 09-06-2008, 03:20 PM   #4
Nicademus
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No way? $650! Such a good price for some wheels that are pretty much ready to roll. I also love that paint color. My IS300 is a similar color.

How did you go about polishing the lip?
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Last edited by Nicademus; 09-06-2008 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 09-06-2008, 03:56 PM   #5
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You guys got some smokin deals on those rims.
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Old 09-06-2008, 06:21 PM   #6
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thats nuts i wish i could find rm's for that price.
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Old 09-06-2008, 06:33 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e30 gangsta View Post
thats nuts i wish i could find rm's for that price.
Yeah but mine are pretty haggard. They have the following negative aspects (but still a very good price nonetheless :

  • 1 bent barrel (as far as I know)
  • 1 bent lip (again as far as I know )
  • Only 2 center caps
  • Curbage galore!
I'm still in the search for a legit place to get the bends out of them so at least I could use them if I wanted to. I'm hoping that the body shop I used to work at can get me a discount through the place they use to fix wheels.

Then I want to get some bigger lips, probably some new bolts while I'm at it right?, and either paint or polish or both. I have zip zero nadda, experience with wheels. This is the first set I've ever bought. All my other cars I've owned are either too expensive to modify, nothing available or I just don't want to rice out my car (such as with my daily driver Lexus IS300).
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Old 09-06-2008, 06:56 PM   #8
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* Model: BBS RS001 3 piece
* Height/Width/Offset: 15"x7 ET25
* Purchased from: www.memoryfab.com
* Price: $1700 refurbed
* hub bore: 57mm


* Steering wheel: 3 spoke BBS made by Ital Volanti dated 8/90 $400 shipped from Germany. Also I have a 4 spoke on the way as well.







AND...








* Model: BBS RK II 2 piece
* Height/Width/Offset: 17"x8 ET20
* Purchased from: EbaY
* Price: $450
* hub bore: 74mm will use nub rings to step down to 72.56 for e30 m3 5 lug




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Old 09-06-2008, 07:12 PM   #9
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bbs rm's. stock 1/2in lip for now. i picked these up for 200bucs with tires, plus i had to do a tranny swap for a friend. not bad imho. good shape except some curb rash.





another set of 4 bbs rm's that i got for 100bucs. some curb rash and couple bent barrels.



nothin the old eyecrometer couldnt find. notice the mark on the strut for reference.



and then the old bottle jack straightner lol



wtb: 2 or 2.5in lips please....
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Old 09-06-2008, 07:51 PM   #10
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in progress....soon veryyyyy sooon. anyone have a fender roller in the southeast?? preferably savannah, ga area??
-ben


please excuse the cell camera
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Old 09-06-2008, 08:15 PM   #11
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I thought I got a good deal for mine but after reading about $100 and $200 RM's I'm feeling buyers remorse

Is that VVV a legit way to straighten wheels? It seems like that might dent the other side too? How do the "pros" do it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfdmas View Post
and then the old bottle jack straightner lol

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Old 09-06-2008, 08:30 PM   #12
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you need heat to straighten them out proper. I dont post my bits.
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Old 09-06-2008, 09:21 PM   #13
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you need heat to straighten them out proper. I dont post my bits.
yeah yeah, no1 wants to see yer bits n pieces anywayz, lets see some BBS porn.
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Old 09-06-2008, 09:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
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you need heat to straighten them out proper. I dont post my bits.
I don't get what you're talking about regarding this "I don't post my bits"??
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Old 09-06-2008, 09:36 PM   #15
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I don't get what you're talking about regarding this "I don't post my bits"??
His balls.
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