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    Given what's going on, it is sad as fuck to see the major topic of discussion here turn to blaming everyday people who go to work and don't get paid! aka "Well guys it's their fault for not saving more ... or for working for the government... or, the government is too big anyway."

    Ugh. WTF?
    1990 BMW 325iC Triple Black Hard Top, Self-Wrenched, Original Owner Family

    Comment


      They're not every day people, they're "government workers" and that means that they are some sort of entitled super rich ubermensch that deserves no sympathy. Every day person trying to do a job to help their country? No, they need to quit their job of 27 years a few years before their 30 year pension because they haven't been paid in a few weeks. They need to quit right now and find employment elsewhere. Every single of them 800k workers needs to flood the job market and find a replacement job right this second. It doesn't even matter how hard it is to find another job or the fact that they are walking away from decades of retirement building, it's their fault that the government is shut down.

      No sympathy for those government losers.

      This message brought to you by the MrSleeveTeam.
      AWD > RWD

      Comment


        When you work in a job that literally every year being furloughed is possible, and sometimes 2-3 times a year since budgets are no longer possible, yeah you prob ought to plan for it. It comes with the territory. You get great benefits and pension at the cost of maybe having a few weeks back paid every year. It’s a trade off like most things in life. These are not children. They are capable of planning accordingly. Is it there fault for being furloughed, of course not. However it is always a possibility with govt employment, so one best plan accordingly. In the end they will get paid for weeks of work that they never earned, pretty nice for those who were prepared.

        The whole shutdown is stupid. If your gonna shutdown the govt over wall funding, he should ask for the whole amount for the wall. If your gonna do it, do it for a real purpose, fund the whole damn thing!!
        Last edited by naplesE30; 01-13-2019, 12:55 PM.

        Comment


          Originally posted by decay View Post
          coast guard *are* employees. of DHS. not military. so, no goalpost-moving. we're talking about the same thing, you just don't want to acknowledge it because you have an idea that happens to be incorrect. die on that hill if you want to, i've already seen the inside of it.
          Ummm Derrppp Derrp from you yet again. You know as well as I do why the Coasties are funded from DHS Vs the DoD, DHS has Jurisdiction to operate with in the USA in a law enforcement capacity , Vs the DoD and the regular military units.

          Last I checked you still had to ENLIST and sign your personal choices away, for a given amount of time. Thus making it hard to make the choice to find other sources of income when you dont have regular income in bound.


          So again attempted goal post relocation to justify your victim mentality.



          Originally posted by decay
          i like how in the rare cases when you agree with my point you still have to act like you're the one who came up with it.
          I never took credit for you bringing it up, or pointing it out. I just built on your point.



          Originally posted by decay
          three tunnels in one month, in one city, where there's already a wall.
          Tunnels under existing barriers is nothing new.. Yawn........





          Originally posted by CarpHunter View Post
          Sleeve, it seems your ego is blinding you to the obvious. Your statement of "if I can do it anyone can" is the ultimate example of this. Your making the assumption that everyone has had the same opportunities, background and upbringing. Thats just patently false.
          Your right, no arguments, my point being that in the "If I can" is that I am unremarkable, not terribly gifted, and just your average kid raised in a poverty stricken midwestern county in the 80's most anyone can figure things out too.

          Originally posted by CarpHunter
          You also state you "dug yourself out", while glossing over all the help you got. This is most glaring with the whole part of "having" to live in a rv, or your inlaws basement. Truth is you didn't have to, you got to. For millions of americans those options aren't available. If they miss rent, or a mortgage payment they're homeless. You got lucky that people were kind and generous enough to lend you help, opening their homes, lives, and check books for you. Dismissing their help as you sacrificing is dishonest. It's the Craig t Nelson thought process. As in his infamous saying "I was on welfare and food stamps, and nobody helped me". You need to learn empathy.
          Huh you never lived with roommates before??? I always PAID my portion of the rent. Next renting the basement from inlaws was a mutually beneficial arrangement. We got a mildly discounted rent, and they got the income to keep their house.

          Your right, I did have some help when I set out on my own. No arguments, and those people that I am grateful to, have never been forgotten.


          Originally posted by CarpHunter
          Yes people do need to take some responsibility for their finances. But your assuming again that everyone has the same financial knowledge or ability. Just look at the average american financial iq. It's terrible. And it's not like schools teach it, short of college.
          This is part of the point I have been making. Its selectively not taught we have had this discussion in another thread someplace on here.


          Originally posted by CarpHunter
          We all know that wages have stayed stagnant for decades while costs of everything has gone up. Is that the workers fault or those in charge of the system?
          This is a product of many things that are beyond my pay grade. I have thoughts on this, but thats for a different thread.


          Originally posted by CarpHunter
          Oh yeah, your wrong for sure on the back pay part. Their not guaranteed back pay, it has to be approved by Congress and signed by the president first. Congress already did their part, it's waiting on trump to sign. What are the odds he'll hold that as ransom. And sorry, but when he goes on tv and stated he would take responsibility and be proud to shut the government down, it's solely on him. After all he's in charge. It's truly sad the right is ok with causing actual harm to american citizens for a political stunt.
          Ummm your right, no arguments. That said, they will authorize it, as they have historically, like you have said they have it authorized as it is now. You think Nan and Chuck will pull that stunt, when they are the "workers party leaders"

          Chuck and Nancy can un-fuck the mess too, by being adults and come to some kind of mutual agreement with the POTUS


          Originally posted by naplesE30 View Post
          When you work in a job that literally every year being furloughed is possible, and sometimes 2-3 times a year since budgets are no longer possible, yeah you prob ought to plan for it. It comes with the territory. You get great benefits and pension at the cost of maybe having a few weeks back paid every year. It’s a trade off like most things in life. These are not children. They are capable of planning accordingly. Is it there fault for being furloughed, of course not. However it is always a possibility with govt employment, so one best plan accordingly. In the end they will get paid for weeks of work that they never earned, pretty nice for those who were prepared.

          The whole shutdown is stupid. If your gonna shutdown the govt over wall funding, he should ask for the whole amount for the wall. If your gonna do it, do it for a real purpose, fund the whole damn thing!!
          YES this for sure, you took the words from my mouth


          I have never once "laid blame of the shut down" at the feet of those affected by it. I lay their inabilty to with stand a missed pay check at their feet.

          I lay the blame of the shutdown On the Politics of Division, and the idiots in charge of DC in both branches tasked with the complete passage of laws. The idiots in charge of the law making houses and the idiot in charge of the big white one. No more no less
          Originally posted by Fusion
          If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
          The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


          The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

          Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
          William Pitt-

          Comment


            Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
            Ummm Derrppp Derrp from you yet again. You know as well as I do why the Coasties are funded from DHS Vs the DoD, DHS has Jurisdiction to operate with in the USA in a law enforcement capacity , Vs the DoD and the regular military units.

            Last I checked you still had to ENLIST and sign your personal choices away, for a given amount of time. Thus making it hard to make the choice to find other sources of income when you dont have regular income in bound.


            So again attempted goal post relocation to justify your victim mentality.
            i'm not relocating goalposts. you're making a distinction without a difference, because there are plenty of others that you wouldn't describe as "enlisted" that are still in the exact same position- not getting paid, still have to go to work.

            on the upside, TSA workers give not even half a shit about their jobs right now. i skated through security at SFO on new year's morning with two different THC delivery methods in my pocket. that was fucking great.

            I never took credit for you bringing it up, or pointing it out. I just built on your point.
            more accurate to say you rephrased it, but whatever.

            Tunnels under existing barriers is nothing new.. Yawn........
            oh my god, we are almost to the light.

            they are nothing new, and have shown to be easily circumvented in multiple ways.

            sooooo... why again are we going to spend between 5-25bil on more wall?
            past:
            1989 325is (learner shitbox)
            1986 325e (turbo dorito)
            1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
            1985 323i baur
            current:
            1995 M3 (suspension, 17x9/255-40, borla)

            Comment


              Originally posted by decay View Post
              i'm not relocating goalposts. you're making a distinction without a difference, because there are plenty of others that you wouldn't describe as "enlisted" that are still in the exact same position- not getting paid, still have to go to work.

              on the upside, TSA workers give not even half a shit about their jobs right now. i skated through security at SFO on new year's morning with two different THC delivery methods in my pocket. that was fucking great.
              Again an EMPLOYEE can say fuck this shit and go find a job in the private sector if they wish to. An Enlisted man DOES NOT HAVE THAT OPTION. So there for there is a huge differentiation there, and if you would stop being purposefully obtuse about it, we could move on.

              Anyone that is hourly and worked (and those that have not had to come into work all this time as well) will get their back pay, the salary guys will get their pay as well. THEY WILL GET PAID, and as of right now they are 2 days late getting a check, that happens in the private sector too. why are you not whining about all the private sector guys that missed a check this week. Also the TSA.... to get them to come into work got a deposit for a days pay and a 500 dollar bonus today.







              Originally posted by decay
              oh my god, we are almost to the light.

              they are nothing new, and have shown to be easily circumvented in multiple ways.

              sooooo... why again are we going to spend between 5-25bil on more wall?
              When you dont have to devote the bulk of your man power to trying to patrol 3000+ miles of open desert, you can devote more man hours and technology dollars to finding and countering those alternative methods of circumventing legal immigration policy.
              Originally posted by Fusion
              If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
              The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


              The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

              Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
              William Pitt-

              Comment


                What about the fact border state leaders don't want walls? They mostly want more manpower/technology.

                [IMG]https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/my350z.com-vbulletin/550x225/80-parkerbsig_5096690e71d912ec1addc4a84e99c374685fc03 8.jpg[/IMG

                Comment


                  Originally posted by parkerbink View Post
                  What about the fact border state leaders don't want walls? They mostly want more manpower/technology.
                  True; the towns on the actual border do not want it. The people whose land is going to be taken no question asked don't want it. The great majority of this country doesn't want it.


                  You have existing steel border walls where people just cut them open, create a door and walk through! People will get through if they want to. There are MUCH bigger issues at hand here. Why does our country have to waste so much money for no reason besides this orange person who wants to cover his boasts? It's f'ing crazy. What a fucking waste of our money.
                  1990 BMW 325iC Triple Black Hard Top, Self-Wrenched, Original Owner Family

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by parkerbink View Post
                    What about the fact border state leaders don't want walls? They mostly want more manpower/technology.
                    Of course they publicly object to it, DUHHHHH let me show you my shocked face .

                    They have to say that no matter what they really think. They want to keep their jobs, and if they support a barrier and strict immigration policy then they alienate a significant portion of the voters that they need to keep their job. These guys are not going to shit where they eat. I suspect you knew all this already.



                    TX gov Abbot said a couple years ago, IIRC, they dont want physical boundaries in certain places, such as Big Bend National Park, and other places of scenic significance . That seems like an acceptable position to take.
                    Originally posted by Fusion
                    If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                    The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                    The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                    William Pitt-

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
                      Again an EMPLOYEE can say fuck this shit and go find a job in the private sector if they wish to. An Enlisted man DOES NOT HAVE THAT OPTION. So there for there is a huge differentiation there, and if you would stop being purposefully obtuse about it, we could move on.
                      dude, you're the one being obtuse- whether they are enlisted or on some labor contract is less relevant to the discussion than the fact that either way, the government has a contractual obligation they are failing to fulfill because drumpf has decided that throwing a tantrum and going full-body-limp like a 2-year old in the middle of a target store is more important.

                      the argument that "well they should have planned for this" is obnoxious, and doubling down on it is an asshole move.

                      Anyone that is hourly and worked (and those that have not had to come into work all this time as well) will get their back pay, the salary guys will get their pay as well. THEY WILL GET PAID
                      i've read otherwise, so this is where you get to use a citation to back up your assertion.

                      When you dont have to devote the bulk of your man power to trying to patrol 3000+ miles of open desert, you can devote more man hours and technology dollars to finding and countering those alternative methods of circumventing legal immigration policy.
                      if that's your argument, we should just spend that 5.6bil *on* manpower and technology rather than a symbol that makes the border no less porous. i want efficacy from the white house, not showmanship.
                      past:
                      1989 325is (learner shitbox)
                      1986 325e (turbo dorito)
                      1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
                      1985 323i baur
                      current:
                      1995 M3 (suspension, 17x9/255-40, borla)

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
                        Of course they publicly object to it, DUHHHHH let me show you my shocked face .

                        They have to say that no matter what they really think. They want to keep their jobs, and if they support a barrier and strict immigration policy then they alienate a significant portion of the voters that they need to keep their job. These guys are not going to shit where they eat. I suspect you knew all this already.



                        TX gov Abbot said a couple years ago, IIRC, they dont want physical boundaries in certain places, such as Big Bend National Park, and other places of scenic significance . That seems like an acceptable position to take.

                        Really man, you don't fail to quote the party line.


                        One of the Texas sheriffs said he is a Trump supporter & to hell with the wall.

                        [IMG]https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/my350z.com-vbulletin/550x225/80-parkerbsig_5096690e71d912ec1addc4a84e99c374685fc03 8.jpg[/IMG

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by decay View Post
                          dude, you're the one being obtuse- whether they are enlisted or on some labor contract is less relevant to the discussion than the fact that either way, the government has a contractual obligation they are failing to fulfill because drumpf has decided that throwing a tantrum and going full-body-limp like a 2-year old in the middle of a target store is more important.

                          the argument that "well they should have planned for this" is obnoxious, and doubling down on it is an asshole move.
                          Again with this.... The Coasties are part of the "armed services" of the USA, their contracts of enlistment do not differ much from that of yours in the Army.

                          We agree that the enlisted men should be getting paid like the rest of the military.

                          Everyone should be able to survive a missed pay check, its called being a responsible adult.



                          Originally posted by decay
                          i've read otherwise, so this is where you get to use a citation to back up your assertion.
                          Maybe back off the Vox a little bit


                          1st paragraph and I trust CBS is good enough for you from 1/10/19
                          Originally posted by article
                          The Senate approved a bill by voice vote to provide back pay to federal workers currently on furlough or working without pay when the government shutdown ends. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said President Trump has indicated he will sign the bill, which first must be passed by the House.


                          Originally posted by decay
                          if that's your argument, we should just spend that 5.6bil *on* manpower and technology rather than a symbol that makes the border no less porous. i want efficacy from the white house, not showmanship.
                          fundamentally I dont disagree, unless there is going to be a full allocation to build 2000+ miles of it, maybe 5.6b is better utilized in an alternate manner yet still devoted to the issue. As something needs to be done about it.



                          Originally posted by parkerbink View Post
                          Really man, you don't fail to quote the party line.


                          One of the Texas sheriffs said he is a Trump supporter & to hell with the wall.
                          again last I checked Sheriffs are ELECTED officials. I would say that too if I was not planing on retiring next election cycle.
                          Originally posted by Fusion
                          If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                          The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                          The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                          Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                          William Pitt-

                          Comment




                            Except they are Homeland Security.
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                              Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
                              Again with this.... The Coasties are part of the "armed services" of the USA, their contracts of enlistment do not differ much from that of yours in the Army.
                              no they AREN'T. told you that already. their chain of command goes through DHS, not DoD.

                              similarity of their contracts doesn't change that.
                              past:
                              1989 325is (learner shitbox)
                              1986 325e (turbo dorito)
                              1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
                              1985 323i baur
                              current:
                              1995 M3 (suspension, 17x9/255-40, borla)

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                                Originally posted by decay View Post
                                no they AREN'T. told you that already. their chain of command goes through DHS, not DoD.

                                similarity of their contracts doesn't change that.
                                I have pointed out to you why the coasites are under the umbrella of the DHS Vs DoD. They are the maritime division of the DHS. Plus they have a massive domestic Law Enforcement capacity, a role the DoD cant fill with out massive protocols being fulfilled, and ones NONE OF US WANT TO HAVE IMPOSED UPON US. Their command structure can and has been transferred to the USN. Does not change the fact they are a branch of the US military, irregardless of the fact of the header on the stationary orders come on. To join them, your Enlisted not employed. You know all this though, but yet you keep doubling down on the stationary header that allows them to do their jobs, vs granting the DoD through USN a special provision to the USN giving it the jurisdiction to operate at will with the USA. That is not something you or I or most anyone else would like to see happen.



                                Oh look the Official US Gov. web site for the coasties is a .MIL huh a military web site


                                1st fucking sentence from the official CG web
                                The Coast Guard is one of our nation’s five military services



                                1st fucking sentence again different part of same site
                                The Coast Guard is a unique branch of the military responsible for an array of maritime duties, from ensuring safe and lawful commerce to performing rescue missions in severe conditions.
                                Originally posted by Fusion
                                If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                                The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                                The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                                Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                                William Pitt-

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