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Ignition and VE table M20 Alpha-N

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    Ignition and VE table M20 Alpha-N

    Hi guys

    I'm almost done with my strokerbuild, and trying to get the engine running. It starts, but I'm having trouble getting it running.

    It runs full rich as soon as I rev it.

    This is my first ever engine build and ECU programming, so I'm a bit causious.

    So I'm looking for a bit of comparising from others with similar builds.

    Mine is the following specs:
    M20B25 - bore 86mm
    M54B30 crank 89,6mm
    M54B30 135mm rods
    JE Pistons 12,5comp.
    885 ported head
    Schrick 288 cam
    Dbilas adjustable cam wheel
    RHD itb
    Ecumaster EMU management
    Cam sensor M50 Bosch M.3.3.1
    Knock sensor M50 Bosch M3.3.1
    Injector harness M50 - Individual injection
    Bosch 3x2 ignition coil - Wasted Spark
    M5 E34 3,6 injectors - 0280150701 267ccm

    Here are my IG and VE tables.

    VEtable1 by Daniel Schlander

    Ignitiontable1 by Daniel Schlander

    Untitled by Daniel Schlander

    #2
    UPDATE :D

    It know runs way better know! I've had a lot of trouble with engine knocking, so I have looked at several log files and turned down the ign table on the spots where it happened.

    At the moment it has done 2.500km, so with in the next few months I'll make time for som dyno time ;D

    Current tables.

    Fuel-table-mar-18

    Ign-table-mar-18

    AFR-table-mar-18

    Comment


      #3
      why so little timing across the board?

      do you have a pic of the piston youre using?
      89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

      new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

      Comment


        #4
        Have you confirmed your ignition timing to the engine? ie sit it to 10deg and go the timing light out?

        13deg is not much at all. it it revs good on 13deg it suggests your ignition settings are wrong?

        Comment


          #5
          Took me a second. I am used to having RPM across the bottom of maps lol.

          The original map numbers looked better, so long as the "0 degree" reference was verified. Those numbers in the latest maps almost look like you used +10 degrees offset. 27 is about all the m20 can take at peak torque, all your numbers are about 10 off.
          john@m20guru.com
          Links:
          Transaction feedback: Here, here and here. Thanks :D

          Comment


            #6
            I have zero experience besides this engine.. Thats the simple question.. I'm no expert, and is only looking for a good pul from the engine. The piston design looks like Super Eta's piston. See the last picture.

            The first IGN table is from one of RHD's engines, that may be why it looks better.

            My setup could be wrong.. I'll try upload files or pictures when I get near the car again.
            I'll get the car to an expert in the future, so I hopefully can learn a thing or two and have the engine setup correctly.

            @Digger - piston design..

            JE piston spec





            Last edited by Schlander; 03-10-2018, 06:31 AM.

            Comment


              #7
              Here's my trigger setup and scope pattern.



              [url=https://flic.kr/p/GYsMi5]

              Comment


                #8
                Not overly familiar with that setup, but believe the mistake may be in the "first trigger tooth".

                Since the crank has 60 teeth and 360 degrees of crank rotation, each tooth is ~6 degrees apart.

                Best thing to do with a stand alone to verify timing is to get the car running. Then set the timing to "0" degrees advance at idle. Then use a timing light to check if you are at the factory timing marks (can also look at your timing advance in the software, if you have a programmable light).
                john@m20guru.com
                Links:
                Transaction feedback: Here, here and here. Thanks :D

                Comment


                  #9
                  Maybe email Rama at rhd he's a dealer and might be willing to check over your settings

                  12.5:1 is a little much for pump fuel and that cam. Those pistons have some squish (though a reduced amount ) it's not how I'd have designed them for high CR.
                  Last edited by digger; 03-12-2018, 02:55 PM.
                  89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

                  new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Rama are already talking. If I have a question he is the one I’ll write. It is also his base map the engine is started on, so the settings is made by Rama.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Ok then I'd assume it's ok.
                      Given you said you experienced some knock id expect some loads sites would be relatively lower advance but it should not be needed at all sites
                      Last edited by digger; 03-12-2018, 06:52 PM.
                      89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

                      new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

                      Comment


                        #12
                        First of all the timing is checked and is spot on.

                        Second of all.. I got some time on the dyno (92.8km) where we also checked the timing :D

                        The first run, is the setting the car arrived with. The I've driven 2.200km with, or rather made with the help from autotune. Results 221,4hp 269,2 nm. Picture 1.

                        Then we added a lot of top end fuel and ran it again. Results 247,9hp 322,1nm. Picture 2.

                        Then we retarded the cam and had a go again. It made around 240hp and 320nm. Then we advanced a tiny because of valve clearance on the intake and had a go again. The results was then 249hp 332nm. From here we began finetuning the topend fuelmap and ignition map. The results after two pulls was 260,2hp and 334,6nm. Picture 3. Afterwards we finetuned all tps loads in the fuel/ignition maps so AFR target is spot on at all time.

                        It seems like it has more in it, but I have stock internals in the head.. So for know it has to stay here at 6.500 redline. I love the way it pulls from the bottom, around 240nm from 1.800 rpm.

                        I'll pull data from the ecu when I get near the car again.







                        A picture from finetuning 50% tps on the dyno. ;D

                        Comment


                          #13
                          good effort mate

                          what timing did you end up at WOT? any signs of knock?

                          what do you mean by stock internals in the head? rockers and valve springs?
                          89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

                          new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Around the same as pictured further up. I'll post the final map in a few days.

                            It knocked a bit, but nothing that a degree or two couldnt work out :)

                            Yes, stock valves, springs and Febi lifters.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Video on Flickr..

                              IMG_9487 by Daniel Schlander, on Flickr

                              Comment

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