timing issue (TDC seems off?)

[diesekte]

Attempting S52 cam swap into M52. Not sure if PO was in the head before or not.

If I rotate the crank to TDC, the square ends of the cams with the holes do not line up whatsoever with the head. Also the front cam lobes are not even close to a 45 degree angle to each other. In addition, I absolutely cannot get the flywheel locking pin into any type of hole. The arrows on the sprockets of the exhaust cam don't line up either.

If I rotate until I can engage the flywheel locking pin, one position is clearly not right, but one allows me to 1) actually lock the flywheel, 2) the square ends of the cams with the holes/letters line up perfectly flat with the block, 3) the front cam lobes are at 45 degree angles to each other
However the arrows on the cam sprockets still don't line up (as in about a mile off), and the mark for TDC on the crank pulley is about 10 teeth past the mark on the block.

Do I go with the first scenario, where absolutely nothing lines up besides the TDC mark, and i can't insert a flywheel locking pin?
Do I go with the second scenario, where a few things line up and I am at least able to lock the flywheel, but TDC mark on crank pulley is wayyyy past the mark on the block?

[mpowerful]

Use a set of cam locks and get the cams locked at top dead center then take a pic of how far off the flywheel is and report back. If it really is off ten teeth something is very wrong. Sounds like you need to set it all up again. Besian or garagistic has great instructions. As for the flywheel which one is in the car? We have had trouble not getting the pin to go in. Manually time the motor to tdc using a dowel rod in #1 cylinder and check to make sure the tdc mark on front timing cover is in place. If so and the motor is in the car put it in gear and just do your best not to rotate the bottom end while you time the cams. If you do it carefully itll work fine.

[diesekte]

Thanks for the reply. I'll use a dowel rod to really find tdc and take a pic, hopefully this evening.
If the first scenario is where tdc is (cams look way off, first lobes not at 45 degrees, square portion not aligned with head) can I even remove the cams then without breaking them?
If the second scenario is correct where things line up except for the tdc marks, am I correct in that I can proceed with removing the cams, then rotate the crank until the tdc marks line up, then reinstall new cams?
All the diys I can find seem to assume the tdc mark is going to line up and squares will align with block with lobes at 45. I have searched all over and can't find a definitive answer about what to do if things resemble my situation. I don't know if I should rely on the tdc mark with nothing else aligned, or on the cams with tdc mark off.
What could've caused this? Problem with one/both tensioners or???

[diesekte]

OK, I used a dowel rod and found tdc. In tdc, scenario 2 of the above is true. Square part of cam flat with head, cylinder 1 piston all the way up, first cam lobes at 45 degrees, flywheel able to lock...
However, tdc marks on crank pulley and block DO NOT line up whatsoever. It is kind of hard to see from pics due to limited room, but they are about 10 teeth apart:



How do I proceed and rectify the issue?

[mpowerful]

Man i dont know how thats even possible. The trigger wheel ia somehow off? It has an alignment dowel so im not sure how that could be the case

[diesekte]

Exactly what I was thinking...i didn't even think it was possible to put the wheel on wrong...
How do I proceed? Go to TDC and move on from there, with the knowledge that the wheel is just off somehow?

Honestly the car ran fine, no big issues but I haven't ever scanned for codes. Decent mpg, decent power, no big mechanical woes.

[mpowerful]

Dont do what i just said. I just pulled out a spare wheel to make sure i wasnt crazy about the mark on the wheel. I wasnt.

[diesekte]

What is my next step? I can't really find anything describing this situation...surely I can't be the first one

[mpowerful]

Well take the front pulley/trigger wheel off and see why it isnt right.

[mpowerful]

With that being said........if its not gonna slip the cams are timed to the piston so. Im prob to nervous not to take the pulley off and check.

[diesekte]

Took the pulley off...seems like it was just put on wrong. The locating dowel seems "pressed in" in that it is flush with the outer surface of the piece it is set in, instead of sticking out towards the front bumper. It seems stuck in how it is and isn't contacting anything. Somehow the crank pulley got installed one hole advanced, causing the teeth to be so far iff

[delamaize]

Took the pulley off...seems like it was just put on wrong. The locating dowel seems "pressed in" in that it is flush with the outer surface of the piece it is set in, instead of sticking out towards the front bumper. It seems stuck in how it is and isn't contacting anything. Somehow the crank pulley got installed one hole advanced, causing the teeth to be so far iff

you beat me to it, you need to find a way to get that locating pin back into it's right position......

[diesekte]

How would I do that? It seems like the round piece that dowel sets in is all one piece... Doesn't seem possible to have been installed backwards. I applied a little gentle pressure forward and backward to the dowel and nothing. I know now though that the pulley is aligned properly

[diesekte]

Got everything off and I'm at the reassembly phase. And now I'm having another issue.
I was putting the intake can sprocket back on and the nuts never really tightened down, they just kept spinning. I then tried to take them off, and they just keep spinning. What in the hell is going on here? I don't want to just run it in case they come flying off, but I've been wrenching on them for an hour and cannot get them to tighten or come off

[mpowerful]

Sounds like you stripped the intake cam studs. Youll probably need to replace them. Put pressure behind the nuts while you turn them to get the off. Did you use a torque wrench to put em on?