Pisses me off: Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012 (H.R. 4170)

[rwh11385]

if we want to teach our students history, english, politics (those are all in the "humanities" it's not a separate discipline) then I think we should do what we can to enable them to live off the income after graduating from those degree programs or we won't have very good teachers.

but if you don't value those then you shouldn't complain about the state of our populations' education, which you inexplicably did a few pages back. apparently you are just being argumentative because you don't really have a firm handle on your own argument.

Those are usually called out in reports versus xxxx studies which are grouped in other humanities.

Once again, teachers ALREADY have access to loan forgiveness programs. And I know of no one who got into teaching who did not know the typical salaries before hand.

It's not teachers that are the problem, it's the one direction system that pushes everyone into college and let's them assume that regardless of costs or major that they will live the good life after. That's not how the market wold and in demand fields and unique skills are more valuable. And we need skills trades and applied science, not just all of our college student growth in liberal arts.

[FredK]

Plus what about English majors, poli sci, history, humanities and art history majors? Should we guarantee them income if they choose to invest a lot in educations that the market does not value?? Where does it stop?

Why do you hate economics?

Yep. Should be subject to market pressures, so we extinguish the pursuit of economically unimportant knowledge, and make our country great once again.

[rwh11385]

So you like that program?

Check this out...it's on the page you linked but apparently didn't read:

Sound familiar?

I don't have a problem with it, nor the GI Bill or military loan forgiveness programs.

I do have a problem with bad arguments about what poverty means, that graduate degrees are a requirement and the government should have to pay for it regardless of the value to society that people provide.

That exists for what you are worried about, why make it for all majors, regardless if they studied underwater basketweaving and got their masters while partying at an expensive private school and work at Starbucks??

[rwh11385]

the 2012 act differs from the 2007 act by capping the interest on the students at 3.4% (instead of 6.whatever percent it's currently going to be this year) and forgiving loans of people working in those under-served sectors after 5 years instead of 10.

it's a stimulus to get people to work in poor communities in sectors that don't pay very much but we need if we want to get our population educated and taken care of

why should we articially make debt cheaper for everyone? (regardless of what they study or who they will use or not use their degree) and reduce the commitment??

[z31maniac]

I gave you the data. calculate it yourself. $37,000 pre-tax income isn't enough to live on and pay back their student loans.

I graduated from college with $25k in student loans, making $30,900/yr in SPring 2006.

Did I drive a new car, or own a house? No.

Was I well above the poverty line? Yes.

[rwh11385]

I'm not sure how you claim to be making "well above" the poverty line if you were making $31,000 dollars per year before taxes. That's right at the poverty line.

Since when is $31,000 just above poverty for a single person?

Try building an argument based on facts and reality, not crazy

[rwh11385]

I think you're the crazy one accusing me, who is arguing that our college graduates should have enough money to own things like houses and cars in our capitalist society, of being the communist

you sound way more like a communist than I do with your constant railing against the idea that people should be able to afford necessary things in our economy

You kidding me?

In no way is it the goverments job to ensure everyone can afford to have their own house or new car. Shelter is one thing, but expecting everyone to be given an ever growing sized house is absolute insanity.

Plus tuition here has not doubled since then and living expenses have not grown as fast as tuition has so overall costs have not doubled.

You provide NO data and only unsupported opinion as fact, generally wrong when compared with reality.

[rwh11385]

I used the data you linked to in this thread

The cost of education. . . Etc

[z31maniac]

I think you're the crazy one accusing me, who is arguing that our college graduates should have enough money to own things like houses and cars in our capitalist society, of being the communist

you sound way more like a communist than I do with your constant railing against the idea that people should be able to afford necessary things in our economy

Yes a college graduate should...............after you've worked for a few years, saved up, and proven your worth in the job market by moving up the ladder (and the pay scale).


Owning a house or a new car is not "necessary" in any stretch of the imagination.

[z31maniac]

if you doubt my claim that state tuition has doubled over the last decade then look it up

It has, no doubt.

My roommate in college worked a full-time job and went to class full-time so he wouldn't have to take out student loans.

Most are unwilling to even work part-time..............don't feel sorry for them.

[rwh11385]

you keep asking why people should pay for someone else's education but the article you posted states:


so the reality is you continue to misstate the facts to mislead people reading this thread
you're a liar and when you lie about one thing what's to say you aren't lying about much more?

if you doubt my claim that state tuition has doubled over the last decade then look it up

Are you unable to read? Or just choose not to? Those profits pay for Pell grants. Lowering interest rates make school cheaper for OWS douchebags but reduce the aid for less affluent people who want to improve themselves and rise up, not just piss away 8 years on easy majors that don't lead to jobs.

I know what my state tuition was and is and it has not doubled in the time frame you have claimed that z31 has.

And tuition is only part of education costs. Room and board here has not greatly increased so overall education cost has not risen anywhere close to double.

[bonham123]

60% of the people in the U.S. that own a doctorates degree in engineering are from a different country. The reason why this is is because THEY WORK FOR IT. It's hard to get there but at the end it's worth it. You can get a doctorates in engineering and shoot stuff into space or a doctorates in philosophy and make hamburgers the entire day. What sounds more interesting to you? Never mind the compensation difference. Look at the job openings for science and engineering. You can work anywhere in the world give people better living conditions and design stuff that keeps people safe. As a philosopher you can teach people to be a philosopher. Guess what the people you teach do.

[bmwstephen]

this bill is aimed at aiding people who are working in working-class jobs.

they are earning around $30,000-40,000 dollars per year. There is no "ladder" and pay scale to move up in the public sector that is going to change that income bracket very much.

someone who makes $30,000 dollars per year as a school teacher or parole officer or social worker is going to be making $40,000 five years later (assuming raises aren't frozen, which many state jobs are currently frozen due to budget constraints).

so the argument is if we want people to fill those positions, then we need to make them economically feasible

if you're in the private sector then you'll be making more than the cut-off this bill targets either when you're hired or not long afterwards

yeah tell that to the public workers out here in cali

[z31maniac]

Heeter, for the last 10+ years college tuition increases have averaged 2-3x the rate of inflation.......so maybe not exactly double, but don't act like the cost hasn't dramatically increased.

Smooth, why should we pay these people more? We've continually throw more money at the education system for steadily declining results.

[z31maniac]

I know what my state tuition was and is and it has not doubled in the time frame you have claimed that z31 has.

http://www.finaid.org/savings/tuition-inflation.phtml

"During any 17-year period from 1958 to 2001, the average annual tuition inflation rate was between 6% and 9%, ranging from 1.2 times general inflation to 2.1 times general inflation. On average, tuition tends to increase about 8% per year. An 8% college inflation rate means that the cost of college doubles every nine years. "


I realize that info is dated, but it's not too far off current rates.