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General Motors Is Headed For Bankruptcy -- Again

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    Originally posted by Vedubin01 View Post
    At current trading prices, Treasury would lose around $10 billion on its GM bailout.
    And that figure was once projected to be $44 billion by Obama in 2009 and $25 billion less than a year ago. Sure, in an ideal world of free market economy there wouldn't be bailouts. But then again, America does not have a real free market economy [Look at the Farm Bill, for instance] and losing such a large industrial base would hurt our country. Sure, it could have been a Romney bankruptcy but who knows what the outcome would have been (probably very ugly and bad for the country's economic health though).

    Part of the reason GM ran into problems were due to Congress interfering with the market in the first place: Section 179 of our ridiculous tax code. http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story...1#.Ua_VeUCfgfU Buy a Hummer, Get a $25,000 Tax Break

    It rewarded people for buying 6000+ lb SUVs like the Hummer, Escalade, and Tahoe by allowing them it right it off under business use. GM made a lot of money off them so they focused on earning those profits instead of spending any time working on fuel efficient cars or technology that would help them if times changed. There were many, many, many problems at GM prior to the recession but Bob Lutz was trying to turn things around. Unfortunately, they didn't turn soon enough and skyrocketing gas prices turned their SUVs into poison.

    How much would GM and Chrysler failing poison the overall US economy? A lot of people didn't want to find out. And $10B was less than what Bush was willing to bet on GM when he started the auto bailout:

    Bush announces auto rescue
    "GM will get $9.4 billion from the first allocation of federal loan money" [In then end it was $13.4 billion, so more was at stake by GM shuttering than it cost the Treasury from selling before the stock price returned to IPO-level. If they held all shares until now, they'd have a small profit like when Chrysler was bailed out with Lee Iacocca]

    Bush: "Preventing disorderly bankruptcy"
    During brief remarks at the White House, President Bush said in normal times he would have not been in favor of preventing a bankruptcy of the two companies. But the current state of the economy and credit markets left him no choice but to act.

    "Government has a responsibility to safeguard the broader health and stability of our economy," he said. "If we were to allow the free market to take its course now, it would almost certainly lead to disorderly bankruptcy and liquidation for the automakers."

    "In the midst of a financial crisis and a recession, allowing the U.S. auto industry to collapse is not a responsible course of action," Bush added.
    George W. Bush, a former president of the United States of America, declaimed “I’d do it again” in reference to the controversial auto bailouts for GM and Chrysler at the 2012 National Automobile Dealers Association (NADA) convention.


    While believing that marketplace and corporations had to pay for their own problems, he said “sometimes circumstances get in the way of philosophy.”

    “The immediate bankruptcy of [Chrysler and GM] could cost more than a million jobs, decrease tax revenues by $150 billion and set back America’s Gross Domestic Product by hundreds of billions of dollars”, Bush wrote.
    It would be one thing if people were computers who couldn't make decisions that were contrary to the philosophies they repeat, but politicians sometimes have to make hard decisions to do the right thing for the country even it goes against the principles at hand in an ideal circumstance. Mostly because turning a recession into a depression is also against a president's principles.

    And $10B less returned than invested is much less than $150B lost.

    Another way to look at it:

    The Center for Automotive Research said the auto bailout saved 1.5 million jobs through the supply chain.

    If it cost $40B, that would be $29K a job saved
    If it was $25B, that would be $17K a job saved
    At $10B, it is about $6,666 a job saved.

    Now what would have been the costs to the Federal government if 1.5 million people lost their jobs when the American auto industry went under?

    1. The government saves itself from paying for that same person’s unemployment check. (*The average unemployment insurance collected by an individual is $295/week, and the average unemployment duration is 40 weeks. Total: $11,800.)

    2. The government continues to collect money in the form of federal taxes from that employed person. (*The average salary for an auto manufacturer around the time of the bailouts was $40,000. Assuming a very modest federal tax rate of 15%, the revenue that the government would have lost from a laid-off GM plant worker is $4,800 over that same 40 weeks of unemployment.)
    The cost from UI and lost tax revenues would have been $16,600... just for 40 weeks. (Not looking at several years of recovery and regrowth even)

    So it cost the Treasury $6,666 to save the Federal government $16,600... seems like they turned out alright in the end. Certainly those people who kept their jobs and could feed themselves on their own and have a house over their head and buy products from other businesses helped the economy and in turn helped generate tax revenues for the government.



    Sure, you can repeat your philosophy that bailouts suck and are evil or horrible and anti-American or anti-free market all you want... but that doesn't mean it would have been smart to have GM and Chrysler go through Mitt Romney Style.

    And is America actually a free market economy in practice? Is it more anti-American to go against an assumed free market approach, or to decimate an industry and our GDP/employment/tax revenues?

    I don't like bailouts either but sometimes they are necessary for the national interest. It would have been great if the Treasury got its investment back directly from the sale of shares (they would have if held out until now...) but they've benefited from not losing tax revenues from the workers. And they would have been out $3.4B more with Bush's loan if GM went under again without the larger action.

    I don't think anyone is going to look at the auto bailouts as reason to not worry about risks. If anything, the recession put a flashlight on bad strategy and encouraged businesses to be more sustainable in their profits irregardless of the fact some companies got their asses saved. With the direction Bob Lutz gave GM along with current leadership from people like Mary Barra, Steve Girsky, and Mark Reuss, GM should be on a much better course. If you can't see the dramatic change in cars, maybe you should close Drudge and drive one.

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      Looks like joshh screwed the pooch once again, not that he'll ever have the balls to admit it.

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        Logic is so overrated!
        1990 Alpine 325iC.

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          June auto sales: GM hits a five-year high -- and it's not just trucks

          DETROIT, Michigan - General Motors Company reports June sales of 264,843 vehicles in the United States, up 6 percent compared with a year ago.

          Chevy Cruze helps lead GM to highest monthly sales since 2008
          General Motors Company reports June sales of 264,843 vehicles in the United States, up 6 percent compared with a year ago.

          Sales of the Lordstown-made Chevrolet Cruze set an all-time monthly record.

          General Motors reports that it sold 32,871 models of the Cruze this past June, compared to 18,983 units sold during the same month a year ago.

          That's a 73% increase in sales

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            Chrysler, Ford, GM's July sales best since 2006

            Echoing Fay, many industry observers said one of the most encouraging factors in the July numbers was the fact that retail sales are outpacing fleet demand. General Motors, for example, posted an overall gain of 16 percent for the month – but its retail volume surged 23 percent.

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              Doesn't matter if sales are higher, the point is the company as a whole makes bad decisions and loses out on profit easily made.

              They need to restructure their system and fix all the money holes.
              1989 BMW 325is | 2019 Ford Ranger FX4
              willschnitz

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                And Joshh is MIA as usual when another one of this threads blows up in his face.

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                  Originally posted by Wschnitz View Post
                  Doesn't matter if sales are higher, the point is the company as a whole makes bad decisions and loses out on profit easily made.

                  They need to restructure their system and fix all the money holes.
                  Examples? Or just assumption?

                  It's still got work to do, but the stars are beginning to line up for GM to make a lot of money


                  Europe is a "money hole" (??) but they put a good man on it.

                  They are streamlining their whole vehicle portfolio and restructuring IT - what else would you suggest? Or you just full of hot air?

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