Church and State - Time to bring back together?

[Farbin Kaiber]

So, our country(USofA) was formed on the basis of the bible, by a group of claimed atheists to prevent religion from entering into the system of government, but carried "Moral Beliefs" that they based the rules after (based in KJV Biblical Scripture).


Also, excellent political documentary with a large portion devoted to the concepts of Church And State.

http://www.splitdoc.com/

Now, pastors who swindle their congregants out of funds for "Outreaches" and other church based profit gathering are trying to change the laws that allow them to have a tax exempt status basically in trade for not having the power to publicly back a politician/ballot measure. Now they want both.

So, do we as a 60%+ Christian based majority society, allow the very people who bring spiritual enlightenment to direct us to which pollster is best gonna cover their assets?

I say no, but what do you guys think of the very fiber this country was sewn together with being snipped, cut and modified to suit the needs of the politiburo?

[Vedubin01]

This thread is going to be a slug fest, seeing that most on here are atheist. But looking back and most should agree, that society has regressed the more that religion has been removed from society.

[DarkWing6]

Can you define what you mean by bringing Church and State back together and what you mean by separation of Church and State?

[CorvallisBMW]

The last time we combined Church and State, people got burned at the stake.

[Vedubin01]

The last time we combined Church and State, people got burned at the stake.

And people were a lot nicer in those times...:)

[assoutE12]

No.

[peerless]

It is fine for American to have their beliefs and faiths. They can practice religion without fear of persecution. This is fine and I agree with no issues

But bring religion and government together is a recipe for disaster. If you would like to have an example of co-mingled religious states you can travel to Saudi Arabia who probably has pulled it off the best you can, or you can visit Iraq, and we see how well the power struggle between the Shia and Sunni's are doing. Visit any of these countries and tell me if you would want a government such as this.

And don't give the Chritianity is better then Islam or other religions argument. Its all a fairy tale to give people something to beleive in and to guide their morals. That is all it is, simple faith and nothing more. And their is nothing wrong with it in moderation regardless of denomination.

Abso-fucking-lotly NOT will we combine the state with religion. I wuold pick up a rifle and fight to the death to prevent this.

It is ok to have LIMITED religious morals to help guide government institutions but do not co-mingle them to the point of being indistingushable.

Spanish Inqusition anyone?

[CorvallisBMW]

It is fine for American to have their beliefs and faiths. They can practice religion without fear of persecution. This is fine and I agree with no issues

But bring religion and government together is a recipe for disaster. If you would like to have an example of co-mingled religious states you can travel to Saudi Arabia who probably has pulled it off the best you can, or you can visit Iraq, and we see how well the power struggle between the Shia and Sunni's are doing. Visit any of these countries and tell me if you would want a government such as this.

And don't give the Chritianity is better then Islam or other religions argument. Its all a fairy tale to give people something to beleive in and to guide their morals. That is all it is, simple faith and nothing more. And their is nothing wrong with it in moderation regardless of denomination.

Abso-fucking-lotly NOT will we combine the state with religion. I wuold pick up a rifle and fight to the death to prevent this.

It is ok to have LIMITED religious morals to help guide government institutions but do not co-mingle them to the point of being indistingushable.

Spanish Inqusition anyone?

Quoted for being full of WIN.

[BrewCity11]

And don't give the Chritianity is better then Islam or other religions argument. Its all a fairy tale to give people something to beleive in and to guide their morals. That is all it is, simple faith and nothing more. And their is nothing wrong with it in moderation regardless of denomination.

I love that sentence. I couldn't agree with you more.

[Farbin Kaiber]

Can you define what you mean by bringing Church and State back together and what you mean by separation of Church and State?

The act of independent, separate entities working together on shared actions.

Like bringing Ford and Volvo back together, and all the new Volvo systems being dropped to tie back to their Ford Mfg techniques.

The "Separation of Church and State" became an issue in 1803, when, Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter to the Danbury Baptists, and coined the term. Jefferson also edited his own version of the bible during this time (Religious, but kept separate) Jefferson edited his own version of the bible, One of those terms that started rolling around a long time ago.

The founding fathers used the concept of "Freedom of Religion" in the Bill of Rights, to keep religious ideas/ideals out of the political system to prevent citizens from being fully controlled by the governmental system.

Now, it seems the government sees religion as a tool in which to gather the masses under their "shelter" and use as a tool of control.

Now, from a Christian standpoint, I can see that a large, huge, stoopid group of Evangelical Christians marching en masse because their Pastors now can tell them this, that or the other thing.

Can you imagine a group of voters being mobilized because they thing their eternal soul/damnation teeters on the act of getting him or her into office? That is wrong, in my opinion.

[Farbin Kaiber]

It is fine for American to have their beliefs and faiths. They can practice religion without fear of persecution. This is fine and I agree with no issues

But bring religion and government together is a recipe for disaster. If you would like to have an example of co-mingled religious states you can travel to Saudi Arabia who probably has pulled it off the best you can, or you can visit Iraq, and we see how well the power struggle between the Shia and Sunni's are doing. Visit any of these countries and tell me if you would want a government such as this.

And don't give the Chritianity is better then Islam or other religions argument. Its all a fairy tale to give people something to beleive in and to guide their morals. That is all it is, simple faith and nothing more. And their is nothing wrong with it in moderation regardless of denomination.

Abso-fucking-lotly NOT will we combine the state with religion. I wuold pick up a rifle and fight to the death to prevent this.

It is ok to have LIMITED religious morals to help guide government institutions but do not co-mingle them to the point of being indistingushable.

Spanish Inqusition anyone?

As you can see from my above post, I too think these things belong apart like oil and water.

[peerless]

I don't think I quite read the original post correctly.

No, religious doctrine should not dictate to the people which direction to vote or otherwise be involved in politics in any way.

I was quite disturbed at the question and answer debate McCain and Obama attended here in Orange County at the Crystal Cathedral. A church should never be a platform for political arenas. I was dumbfounded and confused when no one really pitched a bitch.

But that is the sad state of the American people. So few can even bother to see the injustices. We as a poeple have become so numb to a reckless government that unless they do something way over the top the people don't even think to care. We have become way to complacent.

I beleive a revolution is in order and will come within the next 10years if things continue the way they are.

[Farbin Kaiber]

I don't think I quite read the original post correctly.

That's ok. I think ya got it now.

I was quite disturbed at the question and answer debate McCain and Obama attended here in Orange County at the Crystal Cathedral. A church should never be a platform for political arenas. I was dumbfounded and confused when no one really pitched a bitch.

Yeah, that burned me. I couldn't believe one of them showed, let alone two. I'm glad they didn't have the event at James Dobson's FotF compound.

But that is the sad state of the American people. So few can even bother to see the injustices. We as a poeple have become so numb to a reckless government that unless they do something way over the top the people don't even think to care. We have become way to complacent.

I beleive a revolution is in order and will come within the next 10years if things continue the way they are.

If we don't give up our rights to revolt before then.

[VacMan]

Farbin, let me know if you need some help browsing monster, hotjobs or pe.com. We need to get you a job. You've become the forum pot-stirrer. Pretty soon you're going to start a riot. :giggle:

Between you and Danny you guys must have 40% of the posts here in the last month. That said, at least yours are thought out instead of one word replies intended only to boost post count.

[DarkWing6]

Thanks for the description FK. I just wanted to know how it was being defined by you before answering your question.

I disagree with how the separation of church and state is defined now, but I am also not for church and state "working together on shared actions" like you defined it.

Currently our goverment interprets that letter from the sense that if an idea is something that has to do with a church, religion, or something of that sort then we will have nothing to do with it. First off, that is stupid becasue America is a deomcracy of the people meaning that if that represents the belief of the people it should be represented in the government. The religion should not be forced on people, but if the Bible speaks about creation or against gay marriage our society should be able to hold that as a moral belief or generally teach it in school as an idea from the soul fact that that represents the thoughts of the majority (i.e. how a democracy of the people should work). On top of that, somehow that letter from Jefferson is interpreted as part of the Consitution or whatever even though it is not.

While we should not be co-branding our churches with our government, the ideas of the majority should be represented in the government since this is a country built upon having a democracy OF THE PEOPLE.

I am 100% for freedom of religion. Religion should not be forced down people's throats. It is a personal decision for people that should be upheld on their own. However, we also need to live within our coutry that allows us to have moral laws like not killing people and not stealing that may be something that a religion believes, but the popular vote also believes that.

This is probably poorly written becasue I am at work and in a hurry, so I hope you get the spirit of what I am saying and not the letter.